[Signing] Flames sign Josh Leivo (1yr, $875k)

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by AC

Adding skilled depth to the roster pushing Lucic down to the 4th line, and Robinson/Rinaldo out of the lineup is a good thing. It's really not that complicated.

Also, if it appears that Bennett and Dube are missing Lucic... You can swap him back onto that line. Lines aren't set in stone and tend to change often throughout a season as needed!

To add, if it is a game where (for some totally inconceivable reason tbh) Bennett and Dube are getting bullied, then we always have the option of playing Lucic with them more.

[Kasi]

Or you know have the fourth line also be an effective scoring line. We’ve seen Ryan put up some good numbers with mediocre wingers. Putting Leivo on his wing seems like it could work out well to both be sound defensively and put up some offensive numbers. I don’t mind having 2 third lines and we give more minutes to the line doing better on a given night. We are not going to compete with almost anyone else’s top line. We just don’t have that top tier center or RW. So what we need to do is roll with four and work on winning matchups 2-4 since we know Monahan/Gaudreau are often going to be hemmed in.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Yeah, I didn't think it was that hard to understand that lines can be mixed and matched, game to game, period to period, shift to shift.

I guess ricardo didn't watch Janko much last season as he was either disinterested or invisible for many games. Is Leivo an upgrade? Yes, he is.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Okay here is another take on it...

Dube and Bennett played the best hockey in their careers with Lucic playing on their line in hard games.

Lucic finished last season with 9 goals and 26 points when you take in post season games.

After Lucic stepping up in the post season just take a soft somewhat skilled Canuck cast off and move Lucic to the 4th line??

Leino's Career year (playing up in the line-up) was 76 games 14 goals and 24 pts. That is pretty much what the Flames got out of bottom-6 Lucic last year.

I never knew that so many people here at CP were in such awe of the Canuck's team... a fringe player on their team is a big upgrade on the Flames team??

The expectation being when they were described as a tire fire that Markstrom carried.

You don't think you're either reading too much into this or trying too hard to find a negative angle in this?

The team had Rinaldo on the fourth line last year for 19 games. Any moves that add depth to a team and allow Ward to build a better bottom six is a step in the right direction.

If he thinks Lucic is needed with Bennett then Leivo improves the fourth line. If the added speed of Leivo makes that line more dangerous ... so be it.

But nobody is awe of the Canucks, and only a rare few are giving top six minutes to Leivo based on the signing.

There's nothing to see here.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Kasi

Or you know have the fourth line also be an effective scoring line. We’ve seen Ryan put up some good numbers with mediocre wingers. Putting Leivo on his wing seems like it could work out well to both be sound defensively and put up some offensive numbers. I don’t mind having 2 third lines and we give more minutes to the line doing better on a given night. We are not going to compete with almost anyone else’s top line. We just don’t have that top tier center or RW. So what we need to do is roll with four and work on winning matchups 2-4 since we know Monahan/Gaudreau are often going to be hemmed in.

In the last 2 years that line has been alternately one of the top 5 lines in the NHL and then one of the least productive 1st lines.
If it averages out in between they are a middle of the pack first line, but I think that is more than enough with our current roster. I think it is pretty disingenous to say they will not compete with any other first line in the league. The ducks, kings, and vegas within our division are examples of first lines they can certainly compete with.

I won't begin the Sean Monahan argument for 1C, that is tired around here. You're wrong though.
Regarding lindholm not being a top RW- what? He won the award as the best swedish player in the nhl 2 seasons prior while playing RW. We definitely have a top RW available.

[Kasi]

I didn’t say Monahan wasn’t a number one center. He is he’s just in the lower half of the list. Top tier != line 1. Good player no doubt but if you compare him to any other 1C more often not he’ll rank lower than them. That line since the all star break of 2019 has gotten constantly hemmed in their zone. I think returning to a Peters style freewheeling system would help them but I don’t see how they’ll thrive in Wards system.

You’re likely right on Lindholm as he’s our most complete forward. I’d like to see if he has another gear but I just have concerns on his play making. As a shooter and defender he’s good though.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by AC

Lines aren't set in stone

They aren't? Damn! I was going to have the roster sheet from Day 1 of training camp carved on a tombstone!

Better call my stonemason while I can still get my deposit back.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by Bingo

You don't think you're either reading too much into this or trying too hard to find a negative angle in this?

The team had Rinaldo on the fourth line last year for 19 games. Any moves that add depth to a team and allow Ward to build a better bottom six is a step in the right direction.

If he thinks Lucic is needed with Bennett then Leivo improves the fourth line. If the added speed of Leivo makes that line more dangerous ... so be it.

But nobody is awe of the Canucks, and only a rare few are giving top six minutes to Leivo based on the signing.

There's nothing to see here.

Your patience is becoming legendary, haha.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Of all the guys that I would think ricardodw might champion, Jankowski is probably dead last on that list.

He would not be championing him if he was still a flame, he'd be dead last on the Ricardodw grit index.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Okay here is another take on it...

Dube and Bennett played the best hockey in their careers with Lucic playing on their line in hard games.

Lucic finished last season with 9 goals and 26 points when you take in post season games.

After Lucic stepping up in the post season just take a soft somewhat skilled Canuck cast off and move Lucic to the 4th line??

Leino's Career year (playing up in the line-up) was 76 games 14 goals and 24 pts. That is pretty much what the Flames got out of bottom-6 Lucic last year.

I never knew that so many people here at CP were in such awe of the Canuck's team... a fringe player on their team is a big upgrade on the Flames team??

The exception being when they were described as a tire fire that Markstrom carried.

What is this balderdash of a take?

[savemedrzaius]

As a Leaf fan we always loved Leivo. Here are some of my thoughts.

The guy was jerked around by Babcock and never complained once. So that's positive point one: A great character guy who teammates seemed to love.

He also is quite good offensively. His shot is sneaky good. It doesn't look great but he tends to score a lot of goals that make you wonder how it went in and after a while you see it has something to do with the way he releases the puck. He has the potential to be a very good 3rd liner and PP2 guy.

For the bad points I'd say he gets injured a lot and he isn't able to create anything on his own. He needs to have someone set him up.

Personally if the Leafs hadn't signed all these other guys already I bet Dubas is trying very hard to bring back Leivo. A great player for the capHit and us Leaf fans are rooting for him. Hes got a soft place in our hearts.

[sureLoss]

Heard Leivo say on Vancouver radio that he knows the Flames have tried to acquire him from Toronto at previous trade deadlines.

[Ped]

Don't see how anyone can quibble with this signing or the other depth moves the Flames have made unless you're looking for reasons. The Flames have been one of the more active teams in upgrading their depth and it shows.


Are all these players perfect? Of course not. They all have question marks to varying degrees. But all of them are signed to cheap deals, and if they get beaten out in camp by younger guys, than so be it.


Competition is good. NHL-quality depth is good.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I liked Reider last season, and he had a spectacular post-season too - on the PK and on the 4th line.



Reider, however, did not look good next to Monahan and Gaudreau nor with Backlund and Mangiapane.


Regardless of where he slots in initially, and whether or not you break up the Lucic - Bennett - Dube line and insert him in Lucic's spot is fairly irrelevant. These 'hard choices' are better than not having any choices at all, right? Leivo in the playoffs somewhere on the top 2 lines would PROBABLY have looked a heck of a lot better than Reider there.


That's what depth forces on your team - tough choices. You rotate guys in and out. You stick with what works, but what works doesn't always seem to work from the start of the season through to the end of the season and into the playoffs, even when you don't account for injuries.


Accounting for injuries makes this signing a home-run in my mind. I am not even as high on Leivo as some posters seem to be, but this is unquestionably a solid depth move that gives the roster flexibility especially during injuries. I am saying this with not even hating Robinson as an everyday player on the 4th line - but having depth and forcing guys to be hungry and give their best on every shift is huge for making this team hard to play against night in and night out.



I don't know how anyone could really have any reservations. I mean, even if Leivo suddenly sucks, you ship him down to the AHL and he doesn't even count against the cap. I don't expect the Flames to suddenly sign 10 college free agents at the end of the season either, so having the contract count to the 50 limit is also practically irrelevant.



You have to be looking really, really, really hard to see a negative in this signing, and it becomes a textbook case of missing the forest for the trees.

[Sandman]

Yeah, Tre isn't gonna sit there like,"Well I can't bring Leivo into the fold-it would cause too much of a conundrum for the coaches! We already have our forward line-up set in stone!"

[TheIronMaiden]

"Oh shucks, now our prospects will have to earn a place in the line up, I should have just given them a spot" - BT Probably.

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

"Oh shucks, now our prospects will have to earn a place in the line up, I should have just given them a spot" - BT Probably.

As long as they give them one if they deserve it.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

As long as they give them one if they deserve it.

I don't have a lot of complaints about how Flames coaches have handled prospects for a few years now. It feels like there has been a steady and healthy infusion of young talent into the lineup with each new season; I can't see why that would suddenly change now.

[Bingo]

From a Johnathan Wills article around the handling of Draisaitl ...

Draisaitl was not overwhelming in the preseason. In six games against NHL (and fringe NHL) opposition he managed two assists and went minus-two; if he’d been a second round pick he almost certainly would have been shipped out before Game 1 of the regular season.

Nor was Draisaitl especially brilliant during the nine-game trial permitted by the CBA. He managed three points and a minus-four rating over that stretch, along with 16 shots; he was just slightly in the black in terms of on-ice shot metrics (Corsi/Fenwick) but was playing exceptionally weak competition and starting more than four shifts in the offensive zone for every one he started in the defensive zone. In other words, he was treading water possession-wise in sheltered minutes but not producing offence. Despite this, Edmonton opted to hang on to him.

Nothing much has changed since. Prior to his demotion, Draisaitl still drew weak opposition and lots of time in the offensive zone. He stayed just barely on the positive side of the possession metrics, while his scoring touch actually decreased over the course of the year.

Draisaitl was mediocre in the preseason, mediocre during his nine-game consequence-free trial, and mediocre afterward. At no point did he demonstrate he was ready for NHL action. The Oilers kept him, and kept on keeping him, anyway.

and

This is straight out of the Oilers’ development playbook. Edmonton has long used “baptism by fire” as its approach to dealing with young players, in particular young forwards

Patience isn't a bad thing.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I don't have a lot of complaints about how Flames coaches have handled prospects for a few years now. It feels like there has been a steady and healthy infusion of young talent into the lineup with each new season; I can't see why that would suddenly change now.

Particularly when most of the younger players we're talking about (Gawdin, Phillips for example) are later round picks with zero NHL experience. Those are the types of players you'd expect to split time between the NHL and the minors before earning a full time job.