I've done intermittent fasting for the last 6 months or so, typically eat between 10am - 8pm (I'm lazy and go for the 10 hour window, but may start narrowing as I've gotten used to it) and cheat 1-2 days a week on the weekend (you get 2 cheat days a week while still getting all the positive affects). Biggest difference I've notice is I have more energy in the morning, better BM, better focus during the day and carry a little less fat (slim build). It's enough of an improvement that I've decided to keep it up indefinitely, my SO has done the same.
The Matata Method: I have a daily routine done first thing in the morning (6am), do hot yoga one day a week, and take one day off a week. Get a massage every 2 months. Generally speaking, my body feels pretty great most of the time.
Daily routine:
breathing exercise / meditation - 20 mins (breathing technique taken from "Wim Hof" Method)
Freestyle Yoga - 40 mins (mostly strength, balance and stretching. Do whatever I'm in the mood for, I try to use DDP yoga as my main influence).
Cold shower - 5 mins (and I mean cold, also taken from "Wim Hof" method)
Hot Shower - 5 mins
Cold showers are amazing for you, you get so much out of an unpleasent few minutes, easily worth it:
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Question.
As for Cofee and Tea, would using sweeteners like Splenda be considered as breaking the fast?
Anything other than water is breaking the fast. When you first take in anything other than water, you body releases digestive enzymes that are only really effective for a 10 hour window and don't work that well beyond a 12 hour window. Your body also goes into recovery mode outside of this window, so eating outside of your window causes you to not recover well or digest well.
At least that is how my engineering brain is best able to wrap itself around complex biological processes.
Fun Fact: Terry Crews does intermittent fasting and eats between 2pm and 10pm.
Intermittent fasting is a fad. It may come out that it has all the great effects that it purports, but right now the research is only just at the beginning stages. Many articles are using animal models, many are using 'alternate day' fasting, and many are of poor quality and lack comparisons to simple caloric restriction models.
As with all dieting advice, the number one question comes down to: can you maintain it? Dieting is pointless if it's temporal. 95% of people just gain the weight back weeks to months later. Not to mention, the second review article says:
Quote:
Research has not demonstrated that alternate-day fasting regimens produce superior weight loss in comparison to standard, continuous calorie restriction weight-loss plans.
So..
#1. You must still operate at a caloric deficit to lose weight. This means that you can't 'over-binge' when you actually do eat. Does this type of diet increase your risk to engage in unhealthy binge eating behaviors?
#2. Is it any easier to maintain an intermittent fasting meal plan then it is a regular meal plan?
#3. Are the metabolic markers of disease changing because of the fasting or because of the caloric deficit in these studies?
#4. What are the (currently un-qualified) other effects? Sleep, ability to gain muscle mass, fatigue, mental acuity, etc?
It's definitely good to see people engaging in better (maybe?) healthy behaviors that they may not have, but we've seen these types of diets come around (Atkin's was huge) without being very sustainable.
An environment in which a person encounters only beliefs or opinions that coincide with their own, so that their existing views are reinforced and alternative ideas are not considered.
1. Its interesting that in many of the published "plans" it allows black coffee during the fasting, when the science behind the time window eating forbids anything other than water because that jump starts your system.
2. I'm not discounting this as a "fad" but I wonder if its popularity is a result of pretty well understood science like calories in calories out and "don't have midnight snacks" and combining that with human psychology. I don't thinks its much of a cooincidence that the most popular method is basically the breakfast skipping one. Many people do that already and its probably the easiest one to skip. For me it is anyway.
I think the biggest takeaway for me is the "10hr" window as described in that video. How many people have early breakfasts and late dinners? I know I do.
To counter TheSutterDynasty, fad or not, unlike Atkins, MEVY, That stupid Herbal pill diet, and any other of those "fad" diets, I think intermittent fasting is the most likely to be maintained and thats why its gaining popularity.
I kind of see it as a fad too but I don't at all doubt anyone's positive results. And not as much of a fad as lemon juice, cayenne pepper and maple syrup cleanses. While it makes sense to rest your digestive system, you can also do tremendous benefit to your system in many other ways. I wouldn't forgo pre and probiotics for IF. As for the weight loss and metabolism benefits, that is going to depend a lot on your body type and genetics. It's logical to think it might benefit some but not others.
Intermittent fasting is a fad. It may come out that it has all the great effects that it purports, but right now the research is only just at the beginning stages. Many articles are using animal models, many are using 'alternate day' fasting, and many are of poor quality and lack comparisons to simple caloric restriction models.
As with all dieting advice, the number one question comes down to: can you maintain it? Dieting is pointless if it's temporal. 95% of people just gain the weight back weeks to months later. Not to mention, the second review article says:
I don't do ADF, but time-restricted fasting. And absolutely, if you only do something temporarily then go back to your old, crappy ways, it stands to reason you'll return to the state you were in before. People who talk about changes to their diet as though it's a temporary thing are the ones who find themselves disappointed in their results, then justifying it by prattling on about how "only 5% of people who diet succeed in keeping the weight off", well no kidding. Diet should be short-hand for 'dietary lifestyle', ie: something permanent, and not "I'm on a diet" where the insinuation is that it's a dramatic temporary measure to reach a goal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSutterDynasty
So..
#1. You must still operate at a caloric deficit to lose weight. This means that you can't 'over-binge' when you actually do eat. Does this type of diet increase your risk to engage in unhealthy binge eating behaviors?
#2. Is it any easier to maintain an intermittent fasting meal plan then it is a regular meal plan?
#3. Are the metabolic markers of disease changing because of the fasting or because of the caloric deficit in these studies?
#4. What are the (currently un-qualified) other effects? Sleep, ability to gain muscle mass, fatigue, mental acuity, etc?
It's definitely good to see people engaging in better (maybe?) healthy behaviors that they may not have, but we've seen these types of diets come around (Atkin's was huge) without being very sustainable.
1. I have not seen any evidence yet that suggests intermittent fasting promotes any sort of disordered eating. On the subject of caloric deficits, you'll find no argument from me on that. CICO matters, no matter what silver-tongued miracle-diet pushers tell you.
2. I think that's a subjective thing. Two things about me, I don't particularly like eating first thing in the morning, and I like having filling meals, so IF is easy to maintain for me because it ticks both of those boxes. I led a healthy lifestyle before I started IF (I used ketosis with calorie restriction and exercise to lose a ton of weight, then what I learned from that process along with exercise to maintain it -- I now use ketosis for cutting), and I continue to lead one now that I'm doing IF. I see it as a way to help me achieve my goals and enjoy doing it.
3. Good question, and one that I'll agree warrants more investigation. Our reliance on animal models is necessary to at least allow us to justify investment into human studies. One problem with human studies is that it's hard to guarantee compliance.
4. One of the PubMed articles linked by the Fitocracy wiki notes that it appears that IF is better for retention of muscle mass during weight loss compared to calorie restriction alone. (source) I would wager that is due to the body entering ketosis during the later stages of the fasting period, mobilizing fat stores.
As for Atkins, ketogenic diets (<20g carbs/day, the 'induction phase' of Atkins, basically) are gaining huge traction in treating severely obese patients, reducing and in many cases all but eliminating Type II diabetes. Sustainability varies, I found it easy to sub out carbs for more veggies, but if you're a vegan/vegetarian, you're going to find a ketogenic diet unsustainable due to the reliance on fat-rich protein-moderate food sources that aren't also teeming with non-dietary fiber carbohydrates.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sa226
1. Its interesting that in many of the published "plans" it allows black coffee during the fasting, when the science behind the time window eating forbids anything other than water because that jump starts your system.
2. I'm not discounting this as a "fad" but I wonder if its popularity is a result of pretty well understood science like calories in calories out and "don't have midnight snacks" and combining that with human psychology. I don't thinks its much of a cooincidence that the most popular method is basically the breakfast skipping one. Many people do that already and its probably the easiest one to skip. For me it is anyway.
1. If you're fasting for something like a blood test, that's something different, because it can upset your body's pH and fluid imbalance. I'm seeing conflicting data on whether or not black coffee has any negative effects on the fasting.
2. You're probably not wrong; I think people are always looking for effective tools for a particular task, and if it works, why not.
To counter TheSutterDynasty, fad or not, unlike Atkins, MEVY, That stupid Herbal pill diet, and any other of those "fad" diets, I think intermittent fasting is the most likely to be maintained and thats why its gaining popularity.
Maybe.. but back when the Atkins was first gaining steam it was much the same. Turns out all the later research said that it's a great alternative to a simple calorie reduction, but it was much harder to maintain. Luckily it really only matters if it works for you (who cares what a study says if you maintain a weight loss for years and years?)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TorqueDog
1. I have not seen any evidence yet that suggests intermittent fasting promotes any sort of disordered eating.
Nor have I, but knowing how high the incidence of disordered eating may be (one such study in the UK - 10% of respondents had some form of disordered eating by their standards) you could certainly see some individuals taking it to the extreme. Especially when many of the people utilizing fasting may already be the type to overeat, you're now telling them it's 'ok' to overeat as long as there is a compensatory fast (or 'purge'). Again, just a theory.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TorqueDog
2. I think that's a subjective thing. Two things about me, I don't particularly like eating first thing in the morning, and I like having filling meals, so IF is easy to maintain for me because it ticks both of those boxes. I led a healthy lifestyle before I started IF (I used ketosis with calorie restriction and exercise to lose a ton of weight, then what I learned from that process along with exercise to maintain it -- I now use ketosis for cutting), and I continue to lead one now that I'm doing IF. I see it as a way to help me achieve my goals and enjoy doing it.
A lot of other people seem to fall into this category as well. I eat every 1-2 hours and it can be very inconvenient.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TorqueDog
4. One of the PubMed articles linked by the Fitocracy wiki notes that it appears that IF is better for retention of muscle mass during weight loss compared to calorie restriction alone. (source) I would wager that is due to the body entering ketosis during the later stages of the fasting period, mobilizing fat stores.
There are some issues with the studies included in this review. The main one being that it's such short term (12 weeks), when our main question about fasting is how well you can maintain it.
The study also notes some pretty significant methodological issues:
Quote:
No dose–response relationship between greater degree of energy restriction and larger amounts of weight loss was identified in the trials examined here, however (4,9,11–13,15,16). For instance, similar weight loss (6% from baseline) after 12–13 weeks of treatment was demonstrated with 16% energy restriction (13) and 23% energy restriction (12). Moreover, the trial (4) that reported the greatest degree of energy restriction (63%) only resulted in slightly greater weight loss (16% body weight reduction after 22 weeks of treatment), than a trial (15) that reported 23% energy restriction (13% weight loss after 20 weeks of treatment). The lack of relationship between degree of energy restriction and amount of weight loss may be due to poor dietary intervention control. Although food was provided in some of these trials (4,15), the investigators did not control for extra food items that may have been consumed after the subjects left the research centre. If the subjects did consume extra food items (i.e. in addition to the food provided), this would greatly decrease the degree of energy restriction over the course of the trial.
And here is a huge problem with comparing fat loss vs muscle loss and why these studies don't tell us a whole let (yet) about whether fasting better helps you maintain muscle:
Quote:
It is important to note, however, that comparing values for fat mass and fat free mass between studies is difficult as different techniques were employed to assess these parameters. More specifically, the majority of daily CR trials implemented dual-energy X-ray absorptiometry (DXA) and magnetic resonance imaging (MRI), while the majority of intermittent CR trials employed bioelectrical impedance analysis. It is well known that DXA and MRI are vastly more accurate techniques for the assessment of fat mass and fat free mass when compared to bioelectrical impedance analysis (33).
Quote:
Originally Posted by TorqueDog
As for Atkins, ketogenic diets (<20g carbs/day, the 'induction phase' of Atkins, basically) are gaining huge traction in treating severely obese patients, reducing and in many cases all but eliminating Type II diabetes. Sustainability varies, I found it easy to sub out carbs for more veggies, but if you're a vegan/vegetarian, you're going to find a ketogenic diet unsustainable due to the reliance on fat-rich protein-moderate food sources that aren't also teeming with non-dietary fiber carbohydrates.
Which makes sense as metabolic syndromes/diabetes are all about an inability to metabolize glucose. I'd be curious to see the difference between removing carbs and changing all carbs to those with a low glycemic index and which is #1 easier to maintain and #2 better for exercise (ie does low carb diet reduce subjective energy/glycogen stores more than a diet with only low GI foods).
An environment in which a person encounters only beliefs or opinions that coincide with their own, so that their existing views are reinforced and alternative ideas are not considered.
Daily routine:
breathing exercise / meditation - 20 mins (breathing technique taken from "Wim Hof" Method)
Freestyle Yoga - 40 mins (mostly strength, balance and stretching. Do whatever I'm in the mood for, I try to use DDP yoga as my main influence).
Cold shower - 5 mins (and I mean cold, also taken from "Wim Hof" method)
Hot Shower - 5 mins
Cold showers are amazing for you, you get so much out of an unpleasent few minutes, easily worth it:
I love Wim Hof!
I saw him in Vancouver last year.
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I did the Wim Hof Method (WHM) and it was a really incredible experience, I ended up doing a number of things with my body that I didn't think was possible: Held my breathe for over 3 minutes w/ near empty lungs, did 30 pushups w/ held breathe and near empty lungs (I got long arms too), barefoot runs in the snow, long cold showers every day for weeks, etc. After I had finished the method I was surprised with how good my lung capacity was, the method lasts 3 months and has very little cardio activities, but afterwards I was able to run for an hour without a big drop in pace and still had energy afterwards.
It really seemed to help with my crohn's disease, the WHM is promoted as being of the greatest benefit to IBD sufferers and I would agree. I even have blood work showing dramatic improvements from before and after doing the WHM. I asked my doctor about this and he said that intent and meditation are powerful tools for healing and wouldn't doubt that the WHM factored into the improvements to my health, but we can't be sure to what degree.
I'd say the cornerstones of the WHM is the breathing techniques / meditation and cold showers, which is why still do them at least 5 days a week.
Fun Fact: Wim Hof also does intermittent fasting, he claims to only eat one giant meal a day.
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I am going to give this a try. Started yesterday. Just drinking tea and water in the day.
I put on a few pounds by having a pretty lazy fall and winter. So, this actually works a lot better for me, as I get really snack-ish in the evening, so by just shifting my food intake to be all in the evening it seems to mitigate that so that I am already feeling pretty full then and have less inclination to go for the chips in the cupboard. I need milk or cream in my morning coffee though, black doesn't sit well with me.
My concern is when I start running again once the snow and ice is gone, I am wondering if I will have enough energy for 10-15k runs in the afternoons before I eat.
My concern is when I start running again once the snow and ice is gone, I am wondering if I will have enough energy for 10-15k runs in the afternoons before I eat.
You might be pleasantly surprised, although to be fair I do my workouts and cardio in the morning before work while I'm fasted.
I kind of see it as a fad too but I don't at all doubt anyone's positive results. And not as much of a fad as lemon juice, cayenne pepper and maple syrup cleanses. While it makes sense to rest your digestive system, you can also do tremendous benefit to your system in many other ways. I wouldn't forgo pre and probiotics for IF. As for the weight loss and metabolism benefits, that is going to depend a lot on your body type and genetics. It's logical to think it might benefit some but not others.
I am not sure there is such a thing as a fad in the weight loss/fitness world. What exists are an endless number of techniques and methods that work for some, but maybe won't for others. At the end of the day though, these techniques are all essentially just different ways of getting people into a caloric deficit. Other than perhaps PEDs, that is the only way to lose weight.
The mistake is when someone claims their method is the best way to lose weight. No, that is just what worked for you, but possibly won't for others. And when I say won't work, I don't mean physiologically, cause they probably all work in that regard- I mean work as far as implementation and keeping up with it. Try the IF approach, for example, when you have a wife and kids that want a normal eating schedule and meal plan...
Ok installed Vora, gonna try this during the week, 5 days, it fits pretty perfectly with how I am already eating and exercising since my gastric sleeve surgery.
I typically already eat no later than 6pm and usually eat around 10 am the next day, something small or as late as noon.
My workouts are usually around 10am, so that is 2 hours before the fast ends, that should be quite something, very curious to see how my energy levels and if I experience any cravings. Since the surgery 1 1/2 years ago my cravings have all but gone away for food.
edit, my eating will be from 10-6pm, have to hit the gym at 9, without coffee, eeeek!
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Last edited by Thor; 03-07-2018 at 12:32 PM.
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Was just thinking of this so I did the math in my head: assuming a daily run of 10K, or some other strenuous exercise, burning around 800 calories for the average male, added to basic caloric needs of maybe 2000-2500 (depending on other daily considerations) for a total of 2800-3300. I would say you can have a more flexible diet, but certainly not calorific meals all the time. And that is probably a lot more calories than the average gym goer burns in a work out as well.
Was just thinking of this so I did the math in my head: assuming a daily run of 10K, or some other strenuous exercise, burning around 800 calories for the average male, added to basic caloric needs of maybe 2000-2500 (depending on other daily considerations) for a total of 2800-3300. I would say you can have a more flexible diet, but certainly not calorific meals all the time. And that is probably a lot more calories than the average gym goer burns in a work out as well.
This is very true. Few people run 10K/day. I run 10K once a week, plus two 5K runs, plus two weightlifting sessions, and most days I'm not burning an extra 800 calories. The average guy that goes to the gym to lift weights, but spends half the time on his phone or chatting probably only burns around 300 calories in a 45-minute workout.
This is very true. Few people run 10K/day. I run 10K once a week, plus two 5K runs, plus two weightlifting sessions, and most days I'm not burning an extra 800 calories. The average guy that goes to the gym to lift weights, but spends half the time on his phone or chatting probably only burns around 300 calories in a 45-minute workout.
Even this amount of exercise is still quite a bit. I try my best, but I'm probably only getting in 2 workouts a week - I'm lucky if I'm burning an extra 800 calories in one week, let alone a day.
I've always believed weight maintenance is 90% diet and 10% exercise. This doesn't mean exercise is not important, as it has a host of other benefits, but in terms of people working on their weight only, good diet is pretty much the only way to be successful.
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