2015/2016 Trade Speculation and Rumors v2 - Page 190 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

GreenLantern2814 · 05-12-2016, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JJ1532

The issue Dallas has though is that they have some major guys to re-sign this year. Nichuskin and Oleksiak are RFAs and the former especially might want a raise. They also have Eaves, Fiddler, Moen, Sceviour, Demers, Goligoski, Russell and Benn as UFAs to re-sign. They only have $17m of cap space to do this. Very tricky, especially when you consider Benn, Sharp, Faksa, Hemsky, Oduya, Janmark and Nemeth are free agents in a years time.

Point being, can they start making goaltender adjustments until they have a better idea of how much some of their big name free agents are going to want? They are in a very interesting situation at the moment. Going to be fascinating to see what moves they make between now and the start of next season.

Nichushkin was a healthy scratch in the playoffs - if anyone's a candidate for a 2-year bridge deal, it's him.

Oleksiak isn't an NHL player. Eaves, Fiddler, Moen will either be brought back cheaper or not at all. Benn and Russell are likely gone. They do need to sign Goligoski and Demers.

Sharp, Hemsky and Oduya will all probably be let go in another year - you will never lose paying star players what they're worth. You will not win when you overpay for too many non-star players.

dammage79 · 05-12-2016, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

I'm a big Korpisalo fan as well. Might be a case though where they actually think Korpisalo is their goalie of the future over Bobrovsky. Does Bob have a NMC?

Doesn't look like it according to Generalfanager.

MrMike · 05-12-2016, 09:24 PM

For the 6th I'd want a sure thing. Like Schneider. Murray. Even Allen isn't worth that to me yet. Kind of what Bishop was worth before he made a name. Mrazek maybe but not just straight up.

PepsiFree · 05-12-2016, 09:52 PM

The reason I would pause about Mrazek is that he has had stretches during both season where he completely loses his game. In a very, very noticeably awful way.

He's young, but you need a solid tandem if you have Mrazek. An experienced back-up who can handle starts is almost a must.

Not that I would be sad if we acquired him, I just think he still has a lot to prove before he's considered anyone's solution, even Detroit.

Poe969 · 05-13-2016, 07:33 AM

I don't get why anyone would trade our first round pick at 6 OA for a goalie, even Murray. The Flames have Gillies in the system and at this point he looks about as good of an option in the future as anyone does. Why give up such a valuable asset for a goalie when we may have a goalie that's just as good already? If the Flames go after a goalie through trade, I'd be looking at dealing players or later picks, the #6 pick has the potential to get an impact player or be traded for a younger forward that the Flames don't have in the system.

Most of the goalies people are looking at trading are on teams that will likely have to lose a goalie for nothing in the future. It's going to be a buyers market on goalies, why start off negotiations offering so much?

1qqaaz · 05-13-2016, 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poe969

I don't get why anyone would trade our first round pick at 6 OA for a goalie, even Murray. The Flames have Gillies in the system and at this point he looks about as good of an option in the future as anyone does. Why give up such a valuable asset for a goalie when we may have a goalie that's just as good already? If the Flames go after a goalie through trade, I'd be looking at dealing players or later picks, the #6 pick has the potential to get an impact player or be traded for a younger forward that the Flames don't have in the system.

Most of the goalies people are looking at trading are on teams that will likely have to lose a goalie for nothing in the future. It's going to be a buyers market on goalies, why start off negotiations offering so much?

I would argue that bonafide elite franchise goaltenders are not available on the trade market. If we had both Gillies and Murray, our chances of obtaining that "world class" goaltender would be that much higher. Imagine how much better the Flames would have been this year if they had Carey Price or Holty. We just can't overstate the importance of goaltending in the regular season and the playoffs.

I like Gillies as much as anyone, but saying he's as good as Murray is quite a stretch. Murray just outplayed the Vezina winner in a playoff series. He's had a fantastic save percentage throughout his entire career. He's the best young goaltender I've ever seen. And I bet even the 6th overall pick wouldn't be enough to get him. There's a solid chance he wins the Conn Smythe.

Roof-Daddy · 05-13-2016, 08:12 AM

That's horse crap that Gillies "looks like about as good an option in the future as anyone does". I like Gillies but he just missed pretty much his entire first pro season and will be coming off of major surgery. There is no way he, right now, is as good of an option as guys like Mrazek, Vasilevskiy, Gibson, Allen or Korpisalo etc. All of whom are in the same age bracket as Gillies, much more proven commodities than Gillies and would likely be a much more important piece for the Flames immediate AND long term future than anyone the Flames draft at 6th overall.

Poe969 · 05-13-2016, 08:24 AM

All I'm saying is that we may have a goalie who's better than them so until we know what we have in Gillies, why give up so much for what may be a short term stopgap. I mean I"m all for getting a guy like Murray, Pickard or one of the other young guys but not for the #6 pick. This team needs skill players, it needs impact players, it needs power forward type players and getting a player who checks all those boxes is worth too much.

Ashasx · 05-13-2016, 08:28 AM

The 6th pick seems like an exorbitant price for almost any goaltender in the league. I want no part in that kind of trade.

Goalies just aren't worth that.

VladtheImpaler · 05-13-2016, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

That's horse crap that Gillies "looks like about as good an option in the future as anyone does". I like Gillies but he just missed pretty much his entire first pro season and will be coming off of major surgery. There is no way he, right now, is as good of an option as guys like Mrazek, Vasilevskiy, Gibson, Allen or Korpisalo etc. All of whom are in the same age bracket as Gillies, much more proven commodities than Gillies and would likely be a much more important piece for the Flames immediate AND long term future than anyone the Flames draft at 6th overall.

Why are you guys dying to trade the 6th overall for an asset that there is no market for?! Like, if the Flames or Leafs don't take this asset off their hands, what else are they going to do with it? For Murray, assuming he holds it together for the rest of the playoffs, at least you can make a case. But, if he holds it together, the Pens aren't trading him, period, so that's a non-starter. The rest are all talented back-ups with potential. There are a lot of goalies exposable for the expansion draft. There are only a couple jobs. It's hard to say who of this bunch of goalies is going to turn out best. "Buyer's market" means "pay less"...

Roof-Daddy · 05-13-2016, 08:34 AM

Most of those goalies i'm not trading the #6 pick for but most of them I would happily trade down from the #6 pick for because they certainly wouldn't be short term stop gaps. This team needs a long term option for a number one goalie at least as much as it needs more forwards IMO. Probably more so as a goaltender is probably the most important player on any team.

SuperMatt18 · 05-13-2016, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashasx

The 6th pick seems like an exorbitant price for almost any goaltender in the league. I want no part in that kind of trade.

Goalies just aren't worth that.

Depends - you just have to be getting an elite goalie, a Price, Schneider, Holtby type.

Even then the Schneider trade is the closest comparable - but that was 9th overall and ended up being Horvat. However if it was the 6th overall (Monahan) then you'd probably still do it but it would be a lot closer. The cost would be fine if you are getting an elite goalie, but we should be able to get a good goalie for a lot cheaper.

The hesitation right now though is that it would be an over-payment on the current goalie market. Teams are going to be forced to move a goalie out of fear in the expansion draft and the Flames are going to be able to get a better deal than expected.

Toonage · 05-13-2016, 08:38 AM

The 28th overall? Sure. 6th? To me, there isn't anyone who would be potentially available that equates to that given the Flames might move on from them in just a few years time.

Caged Great · 05-13-2016, 08:39 AM

It's not like the players at 6 are bad either. The Flames could get someone of a similar calibre as Bennett there.

You just have to listen to Big Tuna about god's grace to hockey (Nylander) and his brother is equally good and he's not even the best option at 6.

Sergachev and Chychrun would easily slot in as a top 4 D-man on the Flames, with 1st pairing upside upside.

Dubois/Tkachuk/Nylander/Jost/Keller are all dynamic offensive talents, each with their positives and negatives.

Goalies are easy to acquire under current conditions. Several teams have multiple good goalies and can only protect 1 next year. There are only 3-4 teams that need a starter, which is fewer than the amount with more than one. It all comes down to cost, and I'm sure that #35 and one of the Stars or Panthers picks would be enough to do it for any of the veteran options. Might need to chip a little something more for one of the younger prospects, but certainly not our 1st.

Enoch Root · 05-13-2016, 08:43 AM

If we were legit contenders now, and we had little in the pipeline on the goalie front, I would be all for using the #6 pick to get that #1 guy.

However:

1) we are not yet contenders, and are probably 2 years away
2) we have a fairly deep prospect pool in net
3) there will be several goalies available over the next year in what will possibly be the biggest buyer's market for goalies ever
4) the Flames still need at least one more legitimate top line forward.

So, in the current environment, there is no way in hell I would trade the #6 for a goalie (one that would be available).

smalltownref · 05-13-2016, 08:44 AM

I agree that the Flames need a long term option for a number one goalie, but they don't need to go out and acquire a goalie that gives them that option just yet. They already have Gillies (likely 2 years away) and MacDonald (2+ years away) in the pipe, what do they have for an up and coming top line RW? Can't think of anyone off the top of my head. That's the hole the Flames need to address IMO right away. Focus on building your core up front over these next couple years, give yourself the time to see what Gillies and MacDonald can do in the farm system, and reassess in a couple years time. By that point, our young core (Johnny, Monny, Sammy, Dougie, Brodie etc) will have had a couple more years experience under their belt, and be inching closer to getting to their prime years. They would likely be able to carry the team more than they can now in case their goalie has an off night, which would be a great time to introduce a younger goalie who needs time to adjust to the NHL level of competition.

Strange Brew · 05-13-2016, 08:56 AM

Only a few goalies might be worth trading the 6th overall pick for, and I'm sure none are available.

Now I recall reading at least one poster claiming that Mason McDonald would be enough to pry Murray away from the Pens. At this point, no way that guy is available. The Pens would swing any kind of deal possible to avoid exposing him in expansion draft.

As for Gillies, he is a complete non factor IMO in assessing our current NHL goalie situation. If he pans out, then we deal with it at that time.

StrykerSteve · 05-13-2016, 09:03 AM

I agree, Murray is nigh-untouchable at this point. But... that's also when his value is at its peak. What would you give for him at this point?

I'd be prepared to offer the 6th overall pick, Shinkaruk and MacDonald.

VladtheImpaler · 05-13-2016, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Depends - you just have to be getting an elite goalie, a Price, Schneider, Holtby type.

Even then the Schneider trade is the closest comparable - but that was 9th overall and ended up being Horvat. However if it was the 6th overall (Monahan) then you'd probably still do it but it would be a lot closer. The cost would be fine if you are getting an elite goalie, but we should be able to get a good goalie for a lot cheaper.

The hesitation right now though is that it would be an over-payment on the current goalie market. Teams are going to be forced to move a goalie out of fear in the expansion draft and the Flames are going to be able to get a better deal than expected.

Exactly. Who of these guys being discussed is a comparable to Schneider? Murray maaaaybe, based on a very small sample size, but he is not going to be available. The rest are all "maybe's" or "proven" guys like Bishop/MAF - those, however, carry big tickets, which take a high pick out of consideration.

Poe969 · 05-13-2016, 09:06 AM

what about trading 6 OA for Hammond? Wasn't he one of the best goalies in the world last year? For all we know, Murray could come crashing down to earth next season. Even for Murray, I don't think I'd give that pick.