Can you Force Bennett in the top 6 with Gaudrau?

[GranteedEV]

Forgive me for this disorganized mess of a post, but:

1. I think Bennett is a dynamic playmaker. What he lacks in sniping ability, he makes up for in vision and elusiveness. I think players like this struggle the most at the bottom of lineups playing a north south game. Even though Bennett is a chippy player, I don't think he's a natural north-south player. I think he's an east-west player who has mentally shut that part of his game off under a coach who wants Brent Sutter hockey. Backlund did it too and didn't recapture his east-west game until Bob Hartley set him loose.
2. I think Monahan is a dangerous shooter who could benefit from the more loose checking he would see away from Gaudreau, which would offset being away from Gaudreau. I also think that stylistically, Monahan and Gaudreau have a certain clash that often hurts our top line. They are no doubt a great top line, but there are just certain things that opponents like to exploit in tighter checking games that I think a bit of variety could solve. Even if it's the same three guys scoring, there's something to be said for the confidence of their linemates to be in on those points. Confidence breeds success in pro sports.
3. I think Ferland is a driving force on our top line. I don't think he's a passenger - so many good rushes and cycles start or are kept alive on his stick. So if the top line duo were Ferland and Gaudreau to spread out the offense, we wouldn't be losing our top line. I think Monahan would continue to produce and Ferland and Gaudreau would continue to produce. But we would be much more difficult to match up to. Stacking top lines is overrated.
4. I don't agree with the sentiment that players should play better at the bottom of the lineup because they're seeing easier competition. Different players thrive in different roles. It's not about being carried or doing to the carrying, it's about style of play and chemistry. Bennett was a great top six forward for us in his rookie year, and only really struggled during stretches where he was riding shotgun with Granlund on the third line or centering such offensive stalwarts as Lance Bouma and Garnet Hathaway (or both!).
5. Bennett had a strong penalty differential when he was a top six forward under Bob Hartley. In 2015-16, only sixteen players in the entire NHL had a better penalty differential than Bennett's +13. He was doing that playing against top competition on the Backlund line. His reputation for "bad penalties" came when Gulutzan came on board and asked guys to focus on stationary board battles instead of utilizing their strengths. Some guys do thrive in that, you have Tkachuk who has been raised by a near HHOF type power forward, but that doesn't mean everyone on this team should thrive in that - in fact I think Tkachuk, Ferland and Giordano are the only players who actually fit this system. I certainly don't think this team plays a style that is suited to its personnel. Doesn't mean I think Hartley had issues, because **** yeah he did, but he knew his personnel and what needed to be done to squeeze +13 penalty differentials out of Sam Bennett.
6. Gulutzan apologists may disagree, but Bennett was clearly trending towards a star player before Gulutzan came into the picture, and actually got off to a nice start early into Gully's tenure centering Tkachuk. It's little things that can damage a player's realization of their potential. Half the game is mental and if you're encouraged to play a certain way counter to your skillset, you will produce less. Not coincidentally I found it most interesting that Ferland said the biggest adjustment from playing a bottom six role to a top line role is simply holding on the puck to make plays. What happens if that's counter to your entire skillset? Bennett might be a tenacious forechecker, but that should be plan C, not plan A for utilizing him.
7. Bennett is not perfect, far from it, but he shown flashes that set him apart not just in this team but in this league. In particular, his ability to use his edges and vision to spin out of the walls into open ice is a unique skill, and I can only think of a few players in the league who possess something similar, with the first name coming to mind being Crosby himself. I want to see that skill honed, because I want to see the team succeed. These are not skills that get maximized playing at the bottom of the lineup. Maybe the damage isn't irreparable (Martin St. Louis, for instance, went from being a bottom six scrub to a hall of fame talent) but you will absolutely never know what you have until you utilize it. Even Bennett's closest comparable, Brayden Schenn, who is having a breakout year (23G 30A in 58GP at his natural position) had more opportunity in Philly than we've given Bennett here.
8. I also think Bennett's creativity on the power play could be utilized better. Maybe it's just recency bias but the play that Gaudreau, Bennett, and Jankowski made last game was exactly the kind of defense-shifting magic that our banal power play just doesn't seem to have. Again this goes back to Bennett's dynamic skill, which I think is second only to Gaudreau on this team. Tkachuk and Monahan are elite talents but can't really manufacture those odd-man situations out of nothing the way Bennett has shown.
9. Bennett's not the only guy who seems to disappear in our bottom six. Jankowski and Mangiapane are too balanced and skilled to be as invisible as they are most nights. Shinkaruk under Gulutzan is not an NHLer, but under Bob Hartley actually looked like a viable potential Hudler replacement with the way he was playing. I'm very unconvinced that there isn't something else wrong with the way this team utilizes the bottom of its roster.
   I'm not attentive or smart enough to figure out what it is, but I look at the bottom sixers on other teams and they aren't all that special either. Hell, forget other teams, a few years ago we were getting legitimate depth offense from guys like Bouma, Jones, Jooris, Granlund, Colborne. That's not a group that should be outproducing our bottom six on paper, and I think the reason for why "on paper" doesn't match "in actuality" can't just be handwaved as "sucking"

[robbie111]

I'd like to see them double shift Johnny on the 1st and 3rd lines.

Gaudreau-Monahan-Ferland

Gaudreau-Jankowski-Bennett

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by LostCatalyst

If chemistry is the main worry then why not try it for a couple shifts per game. Our zone entry is normally gaudreau coming to the half boards and then dropping to the d for a high cycle. If the puck goes deep Ferland digs it out. If it’s a fast break, 2 on 1, or Ferland with a clear shot then by all means he’s outperformed Bennett in those situations. Honestly in the board battles as well. Dammit I just want Bennett to crack 40 points!

Because we're in a dog-fight to make the playoffs, and dismantling something that's working well to experiment and to get one player going doesn't make any sense and risks having several more things not working well.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

Because we're in a dog-fight to make the playoffs, and dismantling something that's working well to experiment and to get one player going doesn't make any sense and risks having several more things not working well.

We're something like 4-0 this season in games where Bennett has seen some ice time with Gaudreau. Two of those wins (@CAR, WPG) happened to be two of our biggest margins of victory of the season and the last one we never trailed in the freakin' Honda center. I'm not suggesting causation, but you're making a lot out about "risks". Bennett/Gaudreau have hooked up for some sensational goals every year of Bennett's career, despite almost never playing together. They have chemistry defensively and in transition.

Reality is this: We're a team that's 20th in goals per game and being held together by the 5th best ES save percentage. What matters is not having one great scoring line, it's having a team that can score in the upper half of the league. I said this about 3M last year and I feel the same way about the Gaudreau-Monahan-Ferland line this year - no line or PP unit should be immune to being split to getting the team as a whole going. Far better teams than ours have shuffled their lines to give themselves a steady wave of 1-2-3-4 depth.