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Originally Posted by Simanium
Just out of curiosity, for those of you in hiring, most job postings request your application to be submitted online. If a candidate shows up in person and drops off his application, is there any stock, positive or negative, in doing this? I could see it being taken either way, some people may take it negatively as the candidate is failing to follow the directions of the job posting, while others take it positively in that they are showing a little more initiative in actually going to the effort to hand deliver their application.
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Sorry, the following is a lot of info and probably in excess of what you want to know. I really don't know why I felt compelled to type this all out.
I interact with many HR professionals on an occasional basis ranging from recruiters to team leads and even HR for HR managers due to my wife holding an HR role. I do occasional practice interviews/resume editing with interns/students/new immigrants through friends and a not for profit I interact with who on occasion asks for help in helping the new immigrants. I am also involved with interviewing interns at my company. Many of these candidates unknowingly to eliminate themselves as candidates, but find new hope when they realize they can do certain things to improve their chances.
In general, I would not suggest dropping off applications in person. Based on my conversations with some people in recruiting, I guess the way to look at it is this way:
If someone asks you to do something in a specific way, and you do it in a different way, it somewhat shows that you don't fully follow instructions which isn't necessarily desired. It's one thing to show you can do things well in more than one way, which means that you won't easily get stuck and spin your wheels if you run into a problem, but it's another when you do things in a different way than requested and the other side has to accommodate. There are different ways to show initiative than hand delivering an application. Often times, whoever receives it can't really do much with it anyways, or it's literally walking up to someone and giving them extra work (whether it's to bring it to the right party or disrupting their work flow and then time spent to discard the paper left on their desk) and thus your attempt to look good just straight up backfires.
I would suggest following the instructions perfectly to show you can work within their system without issue, then adding other activities on top to show initiative. Unless you have someone super old school as the gate keeper, handing in a paper application rather than applying online is considered more nuisance than initiative. Paper sucks, gets lost, gets damaged, takes up space, makes a mess digital is the way to go if dealing with high volumes. Initiative these days is perceived inconsistently from one place to the next, so I can't really suggest an idea. However, I have on occasion heard some HR people say that not sending a thank you or follow up email after an interview was the easiest way for them to break a tie breaker or decide whether to allow someone to go to the next level interview (for which sometimes there are 5-6 interviews).
Most times these days, it's about who you know. Networking is very key and doing it wrong really is a bit of a fruitless exercise. I've met too many people who treat networking like sales or cold call/message me with the most obvious intention of asking me for a job or an idea who I would suggest they go pester. If it's not your style, I would not suggest going out there trying to get people to help you land a job. Go out there to meet people within/around the field/company you are looking into and learn things that will allow you to feel and behave more natural in the industry/company you hope to land in. IMO, focusing more on learning during networking is a better use of time. Ending with "am I a good fit, should I apply?" is a nice way to approach things so that you get an idea whether to spend more time on a promising lead, or stop spending time all together because the lead will be a dead end.
Networking is also not about interacting with business professionals only. Alumni groups, interest groups (board game, hiking, climbing etc.) are also good networking options as well. I would suggest to avoid passive aggressive hints though. Interactions should also be succinct. Saying something like, "Darn, the process isn't going as well as I hoped. I hope tomorrow is better." is much better than someone going on an on for 30 minutes about how they haven't found anything yet. Hell, many friends hate listening to it, so it likely is twice as annoying with acquaintances and strangers. Other people's time is valuable to them. Don't waste their time. The more time they retain for themselves, the more likely they might spend a little bit of it trying to help you.
I've also found that job seekers meeting up with each other is excellent as well. Finding someone to shoot the #### with and just get something off your chest is huge in staying positive and motivated in this journey. Furthermore, sharing about each other's failures is one of the best ways to constantly improve your interviewing/application skills. If someone has interviewed previously at a company you are interested at, ask them about certain things they felt may have contributed to them being eliminated to see if you can avoid the same pitfall. I knew some buddies who interviewed at different accounting firms at different times and helped give each other an advantage applying at the firms they flubbed out at. Both ended up with jobs at different firms and credit each other for teaching each other to interview more effectively. However, they discovered this by accident.
I will say that the majority of HR professionals I chat with absolutely HATE being randomly contacted by people they don't know. They get a plethora of these types of contacts on a regular basis. However, if they contacted you first, I think it's fair game to contact them back, but keep it super concise (test read your communication to see if it gets the main points they would be interested in in 20 seconds or less) don't take it personally if they don't get around to replying you. They're busy people as well. If anything, I actually would suggest to avoid contacting HR directly unless you are asked to do so or if someone has paved the way for you to contact them.
A piece of advice I've been giving to some who have been networking with me, is to treat the entire interview process like a date. Nearly all rules of engagement in a date are applicable in a job interview process. The end goal is to have an enjoyable date as opposed to an awkward or a terrible one.
- The other party is trying to get to know you just as much as you are trying to get to know them
- Reveal enough to show you are qualified, but also other things that show you are interesting enough for a second/third date
- The other side isn't completely stupid. Bend the truth too often and they'll see right through you. But go on and on about how you're not good enough, and you'll probably not be interesting enough for another date. Genuine is the annoying catch phrase, but it's a truth. Many interview guides/articles discuss an idea to not show weakness or spin all weaknesses into strengths. That's stupid IMO. Discuss your capabilities and discuss how your weaknesses will not be allowed to be problematic if you are selected.
- If one side talks all the time and doesn't let the other side speak, probably bad date. Worse if one party wanted a short answer to a simple question and ends up with a 5 minute monologue.
- Confidence is good. Arrogance not so much, nor is timidness. I would say though, that the best way to exude an attitude that shows the other party you are convinced that your personality, knowledge and experience belongs in the industry/company you are interviewing with.
- We are all a collection of all the experiences in our lives. No experience in our lives are truly useless. High level managers have worked minimum wage jobs in their life time and those experiences paved the journey of their career. Others have interests and hobbies as well. They're human after all. You won't just be interacting with people at a professional level at a job. You'll be interacting with them at a personal level as well.
- Resume should be concise. It should be 1 page with information that is most pertinent to the target audience. You can always put additional information available upon request if you have more. The interview should be for elaboration of the info on the resume or mentioning something applicable that did not fit.
A question I've been asked that I found clever was, "Do I have an interesting personality that would work well with the role that I am interviewing for?" You can kind of get some constructive criticism at the end of the interview by asking that question and you can even get a hint as to whether you did well or have been eliminated on the spot. This via the answers given or the body language when the question is answered.
Another I've heard is asking short behavioral questions that the interviewer can answer in one sentence quickly to gauge if you'd even want to be at the company, "How much autonomy do you typically get to finish projects you've been given?"/"What does a typical day look like at your office?".
I know some people like asking the interviewer something along the lines of how long to expect to wait for a decision on consideration for the role/when (how long) would be a good time to follow up if no response is heard from the interviewer and I think it's a good idea. That way, you can reallocate emotional energy from one application/interview to another and not hold out hope for something that you were already eliminated for.
I wish you all good luck on your searches. Hang in there!
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigwd
I still sent out a thank you email a few hours after the interview.
But here is my question: in 100% of interviews the interviewer says "Call me John/Jane, nice to meet you...... etc".
So when writing the thank you note do you still start with: Dear Mr./Ms. Smith????
Hi John/Jane sounds very informaand too familiar l but that's how all emails start, right?
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I suggest first name basis. Consider the thank you note an extension of the interview and put down what you used to address the interviewer in the interview. Wouldn't it be awkward if halfway through the interview, you consistently revert to calling someone by their title after being given permission to refer to the interviewer on a first name basis?
