I Like Milan Lucic

[Ferarri]

Tree seems like a very strategic thinker and student of the game. He preaches that decisions shouldn’t be made based on emotion or other reactive tendencies. That’s why I’m shocked that this trade happened. Even if Peters wasn’t a fan of Neal, you still got to believe that it could have just been an off year and he would find his game again.

I don’t buy the argument that this trade benefited both teams as Neal would never perform here and we gained a degree of truculence. As of right now, this is a slam dunk acquisition by Holland. Fans trying to spin it any other way are just dead wrong. We lost this trade by a huge margin.

[ThisIsAnOutrage]

I also like Lucic. It's neat to see how other players fear tangling with him. That said, I think Peters could utilize him better. Not only shoud Looch be cleared to deal with the oppositio, he should also be in charge of dealing with under-performing players on the Flames. Maybe that will get them going.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Ferarri

Tree seems like a very strategic thinker and student of the game. He preaches that decisions shouldn’t be made based on emotion or other reactive tendencies. That’s why I’m shocked that this trade happened. Even if Peters wasn’t a fan of Neal, you still got to believe that it could have just been an off year and he would find his game again.

I don’t buy the argument that this trade benefited both teams as Neal would never perform here and we gained a degree of truculence. As of right now, this is a slam dunk acquisition by Holland. Fans trying to spin it any other way are just dead wrong. We lost this trade by a huge margin.

You state that Treliving is a calm, rational and strategic manager and then ascend later suppose that he had no good reason to make the trade (perhaps even had imo that you don’t).

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

No, Neal is/was the larger problem on the Flames. His value was never going to get higher here. He had already played his way off the team.

I don’t understand the fans who can’t recognize that Neal played himself off the team last year. All year they tried to get his value back. They fed him ice time he didn’t deserve trying to get him going and get his value back. They wasted a whole season on Neal and his godawful play. He was NEVER going to get another chance to redeem himself after an entire season of failing to show up.

He HAD to be dealt this summer. And obviously it had to be for another bad contract. That is the reality of the situation. A reality some people seem to be in denial of. You are an example of this.

I'm arguing that it didn't have to happen. There was no twisting of arms. How was dealing for a) an equally bad or worse contract and b) dealing for a player of no upside, something that needed to be done? If things didn't work out with Neal, you make absolutely every effort possible to get him to work with the team, even if it requires egos to be checked at the door from all sides. The only thing Lucic had going for him was toughness and a better attitude (presumably). The team isn't losing because of toughness and attitudes can change. In this case, Neal had to be babied and coddled until he gained his form. That was the only option once it came to fruition that Lucic was the only return back. Flames got the worse of it, and I refuse to drink the kool-aid. If egos were mediated there's no way that bringing back Neal was impossible. This almost reminds me of the Phaneuf situation, only this one was worse.

[Jiri Hrdina]

What if Neal was not prepared to check his ego?

[DeluxeMoustache]

nm

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

What if Neal was not prepared to check his ego?

Entirely possible, but I think most people would see it as a new page with the new season ahead. Was he in any way grievously offended and were things really that personal that he would be that angry after a summer off? I'd think not. All I'm saying is it was terrible asset management to bring in a bad contract and a player with little to no upside who would handicap the team.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by fleury

Entirely possible, but I think most people would see it as a new page with the new season ahead. Was he in any way grievously offended and were things really that personal that he would be that angry after a summer off? I'd think not. All I'm saying is it was terrible asset management to bring in a bad contract and a player with little to no upside who would handicap the team.

Well we don’t know but it seems like the Flames wanted to move on so perhaps whatever happened could not be repaired
Your post speaks to checking egos and if he wasn’t willing to do that do you agree that you have to part ways?

[Strange Brew]

I have not ever understood this assumption, or presumption, that Neal had to be dealt.

There was an option of trying to rehabilitate his play and I’m ok with anyone who would cringe at this prospect. I’m not arguing for Neal in any way, just that people seem to argue that trading him for Lucic is somehow evidence that he could not come back.

Because the option of trading him for an anchor contract wasn’t going away.

[Robo]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I have not ever understood this assumption, or presumption, that Neal had to be dealt.

There was an option of trying to rehabilitate his play and I’m ok with anyone who would cringe at this prospect. I’m not arguing for Neal in any way, just that people seem to argue that trading him for Lucic is somehow evidence that he could not come back.

Because the option of trading him for an anchor contract wasn’t going away.

In one of his interviews this pre season neal says flat out he was hoping to be traded, that seems pretty telling right there. That loser doesnt even try to hide it

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Robo

In one of his interviews this pre season neal says flat out he was hoping to be traded, that seems pretty telling right there. That loser doesnt even try to hide it

Well he is a loser, I’m with you there.

Why was he even on the playoff roster if having him around was so detrimental?

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Well we don’t know but it seems like the Flames wanted to move on so perhaps whatever happened could not be repaired
Your post speaks to checking egos and if he wasn’t willing to do that do you agree that you have to part ways?

I think regardless, the fact that they got an anchor in every way (as a player and as a contract), was a very bad deal. I didn't like Neal the player last year. I posted he was a loser when he essentially played lazy, but I don't think the addition by subtraction approach is smart when logic would dictate he should regress to his norm. I had no problem dealing Neal at all. But at the expense of Lucic, it was a resounding no. The only thing I can hope for as a fan is that Lucic gets taken by Seattle and the 3rd round pick turns out to be a great pick. But that's the ultimate outcome. This trade to me was bad at the time, and now has been much worse than originally thought. To answer your original question, I still think you have to play the card that you want to make it work with him to the point that you play it like you're going to love him until it hurts, because getting an anchor of a contract in a cap world is a terrible scenario.

[Jiri Hrdina]

But they already had an anchor contract with Neal
That didn’t change

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

But they already had an anchor contract with Neal
That didn’t change

There's upside to Neal if you force it work work (at least temporarily). Lucic had no upside and a very bad contract. I think it really came down to attitude when all was done, and that I think could have been salvaged somewhat in the offseason with some time away from one another (with Neal). But that's just a guess on my part admittedly.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Well he is a loser, I’m with you there.

Why was he even on the playoff roster if having him around was so detrimental?

At that point you are hoping he does something because you’ve little other choice. And he actually wasn’t’ in the lineup for the most important game.

All of these posts seem to assume little to no attempt to work with Neal offseason (or even in season last year) occurred. I believe this is not the case.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

At that point you are hoping he does something because you’ve little other choice. And he actually wasn’t’ in the lineup for the most important game.

All of these posts seem to assume little to no attempt to work with Neal offseason (or even in season last year) occurred. I believe this is not the case.

I am positive they tried to work with him and improve his play. But it wasn't until the last game of the season they realized he was so bad and were better off without him? Up until then he was playing a regular shift and the first four games of that series were rather important.

There's a lot I don't know about what happened. But although his current play is unsustainable, he has shown that he is better than what we saw last year. I guess i just don't have enough information to conclude there was no chance he could come back to Calgary and at least be somewhat better than he was. As it stands, another team is reaping whatever benefits that the game 5 healthy scratch may have yielded.

[TheScorpion]

Neal is getting 70% offensive zone starts in Edmonton... no line in Calgary plays with that much sheltering

Calgary would have had to completely restructure its offensive systems to accommodate for him. They had no reason to do so.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Ferarri

Tree seems like a very strategic thinker and student of the game. He preaches that decisions shouldn’t be made based on emotion or other reactive tendencies. That’s why I’m shocked that this trade happened. Even if Peters wasn’t a fan of Neal, you still got to believe that it could have just been an off year and he would find his game again.

I don’t buy the argument that this trade benefited both teams as Neal would never perform here and we gained a degree of truculence. As of right now, this is a slam dunk acquisition by Holland. Fans trying to spin it any other way are just dead wrong. We lost this trade by a huge margin.

I think there was more to the whole story behind Neal. Seemed the Flames and the players were unanimous to let Neal go. There were no telling comments like, "we hate to see him go etc, etc. If someones having a negative affect on the core, or the team in general; or maybe not getting along with the coach these can be major distractions in moving forward. I am guessing that BT did not make this decision without consultation from players to management, including the owners.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Neal is getting 70% offensive zone starts in Edmonton... no line in Calgary plays with that much sheltering

Calgary would have had to completely restructure its offensive systems to accommodate for him. They had no reason to do so.

Well other than signing him to a 5 year contract I guess. I don't really know about restructuring the whole system, that might be a little hyperbolic. There was plenty of film on Neal to know how he can be successful.

Anyway I feel gross talking about Neal. It's pretty clear Treliving felt all hope was lost by trading him for Lucic and I'll likely never really know why.

What an awful signing.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Lucic is reasonably quick without the puck, but undeniably loses a lot of speed with possession.

One thing I’ve noticed though is his passing. He’s automatic. He gets in trouble a lot but always finds a Flame to dish to. Crisp, confident passes.