[Trade] Elias Lindholm + Noah Hanifin to Flames for D. Hamilton, Micheal Ferland, & Adam Fox

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

In the same period of time the Flames have also successfully signed Jankowski and Gillies, and added Spencer Foo as a college UFA. But I think most significantly the fact that three of their five picks in the 2018 draft are likely heading to the NCAA suggests in itself that they will continue to pursue US college players.

At the end of the day they were valuable enough to use as an asset. Hickey helped us get Smith with salary retained. Fox helped get Linholm and Hanifin. We saw Hickey move on from Phx and the jury is still out on Fox. I think the bottom line is both were still assets that could be used. That in itself has to be worth something. I think it also speaks to the scouting staff that are identifying these players.

Also if you want to see a dogs breakfast. Go through the 3rd rounds the Flames have had. It isn't pretty. So getting some value from that pick is a start. Next step is getting it to play on our team.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/t...r00005090.html

[TheIronMaiden]

Completely an aside from the topic of this thread but, Yikes, I gotta say reading through that link was pretty grim... In the last decade, 2011 must be one of the most successful drafts for the Flames. All 5 picks wound up spending some time in the show: Sven Baertschi, Markus Granlund, Tyler Wotherspoon, Johnny Gaudreau, and Laurent Brossoit.

That said 2014 has to be one of the most disappointing drafts during that period: Sam Bennett, Mason McDonald, Hunter Smith, Brandon Hickey, Adam Ollas-Mattsson, and Austin Carroll.

edit: upon further inspection 2009 give 2014 a run for its money.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

Completely an aside from the topic of this thread but, Yikes, I gotta say reading through that link was pretty grim... In the last decade, 2011 must be one of the most successful drafts for the Flames. All 5 picks wound up spending some time in the show: Sven Baertschi, Markus Granlund, Tyler Wotherspoon, Johnny Gaudreau, and Laurent Brossoit.

That said 2014 has to be one of the most disappointing drafts during that period: Sam Bennett, Mason McDonald, Hunter Smith, Brandon Hickey, Adam Ollas-Mattsson, and Austin Carroll.

edit: upon further inspection 2009 give 2014 a run for its money.

If you want to be really sad look at 2003.

[bigpete]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

If you want to be really sad look at 2003.

At least 2003 produced a legit NHL player in Phaneuf. How about 2006 where only 1 out of the 7 picks ever played an NHL game. And that was Leland Irving with 13 career games. Ouch.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/t...r00005090.html

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by bigpete

At least 2003 produced a legit NHL player in Phaneuf. How about 2006 where only 1 out of the 7 picks ever played an NHL game. And that was Leland Irving with 13 career games. Ouch.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/t...r00005090.html

Checkmate

[getbak]

Just because there were so many top picks, 2013 and 2014 are both big disappointments for me. Both years, 4 picks in the top-70 and besides Monahan and Bennett, all that are left to show for either draft are McDonald and Klimchuk.

Hopefully Parsons and Dube pay off well so that 2016 doesn't turn into another disappointment.


I also like to remember that in 2006 and 2007, Chicago had 16 total picks and the only two players who ever played a game for them were Kane and Toews. So, it's possible for a draft to be successful even if you only get one NHL regular out of it, so long as it's the right player (and so long as you don't make a habit of it).

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Moneyhands23

I for one hope this loophole is closed during the next lockout...

It's not really a loophole it's more to do the archaic NCAA rules and the current CBA that can't cover them.

It could be a simple fix for the next CBA though.

Drafting team has the right to match any first north american pro contract

[dammage79]

might be the happiest guy in the world about this trade. It looks better and better every single time I see the thread title. Start the season already damn it. Wait, sign the guys first, then start the season damn it!

[Heavy Jack]

I’m pumped too about this trade; can’t wait to see the terms/AAV for both Lindholm and Hanifin but man has this roster seen quite the change. Add all the free agent talent we acquired and it’s tantalizing to think of the possibilities going forward. Really, really, really looking forward to October.

[Niemo]

I'll be in China for the games vs Boston! Hoping to get my jersey signed.

[stang]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

It's not really a loophole it's more to do the archaic NCAA rules and the current CBA that can't cover them.

It could be a simple fix for the next CBA though.

Drafting team has the right to match any first north american pro contract

What if instead of UFA after 4 years they were RFA, and UFA after 5 years?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by stang

What if instead of UFA after 4 years they were RFA, and UFA after 5 years?

yeah, all that needs to be done to largely eliminate this problem, is to give teams 5 years of ownership on draft picks.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

yeah, all that needs to be done to largely eliminate this problem, is to give teams 5 years of ownership on draft picks.

Then problem as always is the NHLPA. I don't see enough incentive for them to agree to such a change.

[SportsJunky]

The Athletic's Kent Wilson has a good look at Hanifin and the analytics of his game in an article today.

While​ there were​ many other players involved in​ the Dougie​ Hamilton​ trade,​ the core​ of the deal​ is​​ the Calgary Flames front office betting on Noah Hanifin as the return. If the 21-year-old develops into an elite defender, the trade will likely be judged a success by Brad Treliving and company.
Picked fifth overall in 2015, Hanifin jumped directly into the NHL as a teenager after just a single season of college hockey under his belt, so he certainly has the pedigree. Hanifin spent his first two seasons getting his NHL legs before having something of a breakout last year at 20, scoring 10 goals and 32 points in a second pairing role.
The question now is — how far is Hanifin from becoming the high-end first pairing the guy the team envisioned when they acquired him for Hamilton?

https://theathletic.com/421497/2018/...to-the-flames/

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Then problem as always is the NHLPA. I don't see enough incentive for them to agree to such a change.

On the other hand, everyone voting on the deal on the NHLPA side is already an NHL player, so it doesn't affect them at all. That makes it something easier for them to "give" on. They'd still want something back, but it's probably more on the scale of "go to the Olympics" not "the end of escrow."

[Flames Draft Watcher]

https://www.sportsnet.ca/960/pat-ste...icanes-season/

Chuck Kaiton voice of the Hurricanes on Bill Peters, Lindholm, Hanifin and Ryan. Skip to 14 minutes for the start of the Peters talk and then the analysis of the players is after that. What I took from it

-Kaiton believes Lindholm can be a 25+ goal scorer in the NHL. Thinks he can be a 55-60 point player.
-Interestingly he mentioned Ryan as a 4th liner so maybe that's where he thinks Ryan fits on the Flames. If that's the case then Jankowski or Lindholm will be centering a 2nd or 3rd line.

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

Ferland might be one of those guys who got 'carried' by his linemates. But to his credit, he had probably the 2nd best shot on the team and himself can make skilled plays and finish. It's not like he's some schmuck who is useless otherwise.

I'm also one of those people that doesn't view a player who is carried by their linemates necessarily as a bad thing. Chemistry is by far the most important aspect of being part of a good line. Ferland didn't need to be the heavy carrier on that line. That was the other guys' job and Ferland simply needed to be in the right place at the right time and have the ability to finish his setups.

I think he's a lot better then people give him credit for. He's gotten better every single year in the league, and really that's all you can ask of a player to do as they advance through their career. The more I think about it, I'll probably end up missing him more then I miss Hamilton down the road.

Great post, and it's always been one of my biggest pet peeves when posters here defend players while they are a Flame, but just as quickly turn around to throw the same player under the bus when he's no longer with the team.

Ferland has a great shot and as you mentioned, very good chemistry with Monahan and Gaudreau, putting in his own fair share of pretty passes and nice set up's to wide open linemates.

I wish him the best. The Flames didn't just dump a free loader on the top line.

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by activeStick

Great post, and it's always been one of my biggest pet peeves when posters here defend players while they are a Flame, but just as quickly turn around to throw the same player under the bus when he's no longer with the team.

Which posters have done this? I can't think of a single one.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

Which posters have done this? I can't think of a single one.

Nope. No one trashed him. At most they compared him unfavorably to Lindholm and/or said he was the beneficiary of his linemates. That's far from trashing.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by activeStick

Great post, and it's always been one of my biggest pet peeves when posters here defend players while they are a Flame, but just as quickly turn around to throw the same player under the bus when he's no longer with the team.

I think you'll find almost everyone kept their same opinion of Ferland. Because opinions of Ferland were quite mixed pre-trade. Some believed Ferland was a good complimentary top two line player who can play that net front, board battling game but had the skill to play with top two line players. Others believed Ferland was a bottom two line player that was forced up to the #1 line due to horrific depth and was gifted a lot of points by playing with our top offensive players.

It's not some people loving him pre-trade and then hating him post-trade. Some people thought he was a valuable piece up front and others thought he was overrated as a top two line player and needed to move down the depth chart. Their opinions didn't change with the trade. But there was always different groups of belief about Ferland, his skill level, his potential, and what line he should play on. An outside fan might come in here look at our reaction, focus mostly on the negative posts and think we were trashing the guy. But really there was a mix of reaction because there was a mix of belief about Ferland. The trade didn't change that. There has always been disagreement on this board about Ferland's role and upside.