2019-20 Raptors and General NBA Thread - Page 57 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

GirlySports · 10-04-2020, 08:06 PM

Heat get one back. Butler carried the team on his back. 46 minutes and a triple-double.

Cali Panthers Fan · 10-04-2020, 08:17 PM

Butler is my favorite player in the entire league, bar none. He has so much heart, effort, and positivity. He was interviewed before the game and he thought they could win this series.

I wish everyone was a little more like Jimmy Butler. There'd be fewer problems in the world.

greyshep · 10-04-2020, 08:18 PM

Impressive win with Dragic and Bam still on the sidelines. Not sure they can pull off another one but it would sure be more interesting if they can.

Hockey_Ninja · 10-06-2020, 07:36 PM

Jimmy has definitely climbed up my favorite ballers in the league list. Man can do it all and does whatever it takes to win. Doesn’t have a stat sheet in the back of his mind at all.

bluejays · 10-06-2020, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hockey_Ninja

Jimmy has definitely climbed up my favorite ballers in the league list. Man can do it all and does whatever it takes to win. Doesn’t have a stat sheet in the back of his mind at all.

Yeah, that is rare. You don't see it in the past couple years too much but something simple as players not shooting the buzzer beating three at the end of a quarter because it would hurt their percentages, would always piss me off. Jimmy just plays hard. A couple years ago he wasn't that great of a teammate when he was calling out the lazyasses he had to be with, but he's now learned to lead by example more and that's good.

Hockey_Ninja · 10-09-2020, 09:47 PM

What a game from both Jimmy and Lebron tonight. Going to game 6. This should be interesting.

The Big Chill · 10-09-2020, 09:51 PM

Butler with 47 minutes! I’m really surprised they’ve pushed it to six, pretty impressive job.

flames_fan_down_under · 10-09-2020, 11:38 PM

Looks like AD is not 100% at all. And did I see him roll his ankle, the same foot that had the heel contusion, at the end of the game as well? Danny Green and Markieff Morris with forgettable games today.

CroFlames · 10-10-2020, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Big Chill

Butler with 47 minutes! I’m really surprised they’ve pushed it to six, pretty impressive job.

Especially how well LeBron played last night.

I love how scrappy Butler is to go with all that heart and talent.

Jiri Hrdina · 10-11-2020, 08:05 PM

Boy you can tell how much of a laugher was - not a single comment in this thread.
I was jacked up for a good game 6 with no rooting interest- so that kinda sucked.

bluejays · 10-11-2020, 08:09 PM

Well, Lakers win, and frankly I don't care much.

On the other hand, this debate isn't black and white, but I truly think Lebron is the greatest of all time. Surely he's protected by the league, but to be dominant in modern day (much like McDavid, Crosby and Ovechkin in hockey), is an accomplishment. Jordan was great for his time, and a great shooter and clutch player, but as sports mature more and more the level of competitiveness always increases year after year in every sport. I don't like Lebron the person, but when any player can dominate a mature sport as he's done I do think it's arguable that he's the best ever. There will be a player with Lebron's physical attributes and the shooting stroke of Curry, and this future player will elapse Lebron, but for now I think the guy has accomplished enough to say this.

Senator Clay Davis · 10-11-2020, 09:15 PM

Still got to give it to MJ. Without the gambling suspension, which is trivial to the game itself, he would have 8 rings in a row. LeBron in his prime got locked up by JJ Barea in the NBA Finals. A tough black mark to overcome for me.

bluejays · 10-11-2020, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Still got to give it to MJ. Without the gambling suspension, which is trivial to the game itself, he would have 8 rings in a row. LeBron in his prime got locked up by JJ Barea in the NBA Finals. A tough black mark to overcome for me.

It's all debatable. Chicago was stacked just as much as today's superteams for it's time, but over time any sport that is relatively new, will get more competitive with each generation, and as a result the overall talent will go up. Jordan's competition wasn't as good as it is today, just like any other sport. 20 years from now, the competition will be better as well. My unstatistically proven point is Jordan was a better clutch player when you needed to give the ball to someone, but as an imposing player who can drive in and get you a bucket, Lebron has been consistent. Again, personally I don't like the guy, but his points produced, how he's produced with a variety of his teams (good - Miami, ugly - Cleveland), shows he's a special talent. I just don't like the flopping and passive aggressive behavior from him, but as an athlete he's something else and he makes it look easy because of his size.

Kasi · 10-11-2020, 09:38 PM

Lebron took teams to the finals that MJ could never have. James in ten finals has been the favorite twice. MJ was favorited every time. The best of his opponents are after every Warriors and Spurs team James played. Also MJ had stacked teams and a top 50 player of all time with him in Pippen. AD this year is the first time James has someone that good. What MJ has for him is that when he got to the finals he never lost or faltered and that counts for something for sure. But he never had to play those Spurs or Warriors either. It’s not like MJ did very well in the 80s when the stacked teams like Celtics and Pistons were still going strong. I think if James gets on more title he’ll eclipse Jordan but for now it’s pretty neck and neck.

Senator Clay Davis · 10-11-2020, 09:45 PM

But better clutch player is how we define every GOAT, otherwise you'd have to say Rodgers and Manning are better than Brady because purely on arm talent and per game/per season stats they are. But Brady has the clutch moments for championships. I think as an all-around basketball player LeBron is possibly better, but in the clutch you take Jordan basically every time.

CroFlames · 10-11-2020, 09:56 PM

I’m a 90s kid and to me Mike was magic. No one could do what he did.

But I think LeBron just passed him as the GOAT. The stats speak for themselves, but when you watch him play he can truly dominate.

Bummer Miami didn’t bother showing up today.

bluejays · 10-11-2020, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

But better clutch player is how we define every GOAT, otherwise you'd have to say Rodgers and Manning are better than Brady because purely on arm talent and per game/per season stats they are. But Brady has the clutch moments for championships. I think as an all-around basketball player LeBron is possibly better, but in the clutch you take Jordan basically every time.

It's a good point but I don't know if IT IS how was all define it. Jordan seemed to have a flare for hitting the game winning buzzer beater, but how many times has Lebron had to do that? I mean, Curry has shown he hits clutch playoff shots, should that put him in the conversation? Not to me given his other body of work. I think the clutch argument is one major one, but there are several factors IMO.

Senator Clay Davis · 10-11-2020, 10:02 PM

In the end it's a pointless argument, because the obvious goat is Timofey Mozgov earning close to $100 million in his career.

Kasi · 10-11-2020, 10:03 PM

https://howtheyplay.com/team-sports/...s-LeBron-James

There is other sites out there with stats too. In playoff clutch moments James has both more volume and higher percentage on clutch shots. People call Kobe and Kyrie clutch but both of them career wise are like mid 20s percentage on them. The reason they’re called clutch is because they did make a big one or two and people don’t recall all the ones they missed.

To me the only loss James has in a finals I hold against him is Dallas. I’m not going to give Jordan credit for beating weaker teams just like this title this year is a lesser accomplishment. Also Jordan lost plenty of times on the way to the finals and I’m not giving him credit for losing there instead of in the finals. Look at some of those teams James took. Basically every Cavs team for example.

Jordan never lost as a favorite and that is an accomplishment. But the league expanded by six teams in his title run and it was a weak league and he had a stacked team and the best coach of all time. That to me balances James’ warts. For me they’re even now but if James adds another title that breaks the tie.

Kasi · 10-11-2020, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fleury

It's a good point but I don't know if IT IS how was all define it. Jordan seemed to have a flare for hitting the game winning buzzer beater, but how many times has Lebron had to do that? I mean, Curry has shown he hits clutch playoff shots, should that put him in the conversation? Not to me given his other body of work. I think the clutch argument is one major one, but there are several factors IMO.

James in playoffs by clutch stats however they are defined has the most volume (not a surprise he just got to number 1 at playoff career games tonight) but also rate in NBA history. Jordan is just behind him so it’s not like Jordan is doing badly here. But the difference between them is very slight. The difference between the pair and everyone else is pretty huge.