Insomnia, it sucks

[Paulie Walnuts]

I popped those 2 400mg in total, and I was out by 11 I think maybe earlier. Didn't wake up once until my alarm went off and was still sleepy lol.

I will contribute this too the crappy sleep the night before as well. Let's see how it goes tonight.

And yes I meant Indica in da couch. I found it actually helps, but I don't want to be dependent on that. Plus Magnesium is good for other things as well.

[D as in David]

This was a note from a podcast summary and I tried it last night when I woke up in the middle of the night. It worked for me this time, at least.

4. Do NOT count sheep, instead take yourself on a mental walk: counting sheep actually makes you stay awake longer; instead, get your mind off itself by going through a rudimentary walk with hyper-detail – imagine putting your shoes on, opening the door, crossing the street, imagine the signs you see, look at the flowers, etc.

[Locke]

You want to know real Hell? I challenge any Theologian to dispute this but I firmly believe real Hell exists in my mind.

I dreamt of Tax Returns.

I walked in to my office this morning, fired up the computer and started in on returns and thought to myself...

"What? I did these already."

In. My. Dreams.

Thats Hell folks. Thats what it is. Right there.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by Locke

You want to know real Hell? I challenge any Theologian to dispute this but I firmly believe real Hell exists in my mind.

I dreamt of Tax Returns.

I walked in to my office this morning, fired up the computer and started in on returns and thought to myself...

"What? I did these already."

In. My. Dreams.

Thats Hell folks. Thats what it is. Right there.

Beats dreaming about writing the UFE for decades afterward, though.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Locke

You want to know real Hell? I challenge any Theologian to dispute this but I firmly believe real Hell exists in my mind.

I dreamt of Tax Returns.

I walked in to my office this morning, fired up the computer and started in on returns and thought to myself...

"What? I did these already."

In. My. Dreams.

Thats Hell folks. Thats what it is. Right there.

My last dream at 4:00 am is usually about some document or form I have to prepare. Then I realize it is not real, and start worrying about my actual files.

[fotze2]

Originally Posted by troutman

My last dream at 4:00 am is usually about some document or form I have to prepare. Then I realize it is not real, and start worrying about my actual files.

X or Rockford?

[Paulie Walnuts]

I woke up twice last night but I think it was because of the wild wind.

Let’s see how tonight goes. 2 pills down.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

For folks trying melatonin, I would try it in liquid form. The body absorbs it more easily.
Take it 30-60 minutes before bed, and makes sure when you do, you turn off all lights and get off your screens. You can also try blue light blocking glasses - those were a game changers for me. Melatonin can be effective but it has to be used correctly.

On the drug side, I took zoplicone for a few years, and found it left me often with a big head ache the next take. A few years ago I shifted to Zolpidem which can be more effective for insomnia that is sleep onset (less effective for insomnia where you are waking up and not abel to get back to sleep). It also gets out of your system faster. Most doctors prescribe Zoplicone but Zolpidem is way better for me.

TLDR: "Ask your doctor about Zolpidem".

Where do you buy liquid for melatonin? I've never seen that before.

[Francis's Hairpiece]

Magnesium-L-Threonate pills have actually been helping. I woke up once to pee at 1:30 and that would have been the end of my sleeping before. I was actually able to go back to sleep! And quickly, not an hour or more later. I'm pretty freaking pumped about this. Anyone not sleeping well should absolutely try this. What have you got to lose?

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Francis's Hairpiece

Magnesium-L-Threonate pills have actually been helping. I woke up once to pee at 1:30 and that would have been the end of my sleeping before. I was actually able to go back to sleep! And quickly, not an hour or more later. I'm pretty freaking pumped about this. Anyone not sleeping well should absolutely try this. What have you got to lose?

How is this different from the bis-glycinate?

I’ve been having deep sleeps. Last night was deep went to piss at 230 went to bed woke up and was fresh. Yesterday I was a bit tired.

My only issues is if I want sleep early. My body and mind are not used to it at all.

[Francis's Hairpiece]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

How is this different from the bis-glycinate?

I’ve been having deep sleeps. Last night was deep went to piss at 230 went to bed woke up and was fresh. Yesterday I was a bit tired.

My only issues is if I want sleep early. My body and mind are not used to it at all.

No idea the difference. I saw someone recommended it in here and I was so desperate for sleep I was willing to try anything short of In Da Couch and a pistol.

I've tried melatonin, 10mg sublingual. Helps get me to sleep, but once I'm up then I'm up. Tried reishi mushrooms, tried regular old magnesium (which I found out here was not the right stuff) and none of it helped me stay asleep.

This stuff is actually helping me be tired enough to go back to sleep instead of staying awake with an active mind after waking up, usually because I'm old and had to piss.
Results are the final judge, and this has really really helped. No side effects thus far. I'm really pleased.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Where do you buy liquid for melatonin? I've never seen that before.

Shoppers. Jamieson brand.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Shoppers. Jamieson brand.

Yeah, Jameson brand helps me sleep too.

[Street Pharmacist]

Probably worth summarizing a few points here.

A risk free and demonstrably effective thing to try first is sleep hygiene. Essentially, a set of habits that are useful for healthy sleep: https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/me...-sleep-hygiene

As for over the counter medication, there's really only one and that's diphenhydramine which is in Zzquil, Unisom, Sleep Ez, etc. It's just benadryl. It makes you tired but has some drawbacks. 1) Tachyphylaxis - effects are minimized as you take it more rendering it less effective, 2) dry mouth and constipation as it uses it's anticholinergic properties to make you tired, those same properties cause these side effects, 3) paradoxical excitation - some people (usually children) are actually stimulated not sedated by it's effects, 4) regular use has been linked to dementia later in life.

There's a crap ton of natural health products for sleep as it's an unregulated marketplace with a giant desperate market and a condition that is uniquely susceptible to placebo effects. Melatonin has some decent evidence for effectiveness, but many people find no effect. Magnesium has conflicting evidence on effectiveness, especially in different age groups. This may be due to differing salt forms, differing doses, and different populations. The more magnesium in the bowels, the more water it pulls in and that exerts a laxative effect. Higher absorption magnesium salts are absorbed faster and lead to less magnesium left in the bowels which means less laxative effect and more absorption for your medical need. Magnesium is the 4th most abundant mineral in your body so it's hard to overdose (though you definitely can!). In deficiency, some B vitamins, iron, and magnesium will help insomnia, but only if it's due to those deficiencies which are easy to test for.

As for medications, I've seen since discussion on zopiclone and zolpidem. Both of these medications are not really recommended for regular use due to a) Tachyphylaxis, b) high risk of dependence and sometimes addiction, and c) a lot of reports of anterograde amnesia. Both a) and b) lead to a situation where regular use may actually worsen insomnia. Think of it with an example like this: you take zopiclone on the first night you get it. You sleep 7 hours and feel great. Three to six months in and your sleep is now 5 to 6 hours but still better quality than before. The trouble is, without zopiclone you now only sleep 1 or 2 hours. In another few months you're almost back to where you started except no sleep without it. Has it really helped you then? Ideally, it's used a couple days here or there or 3 to 4 days to get back into regular sleep rhythms. It is in the same family as Ativan , Valium, and Xanax and suffers from that same risk of addiction. I also saw gabapentin recommended but it's not even second line recommendation. At low doses (3-600mg) it's "virtually" side effect free but I have patients on 1200mg three times daily for nerve pain and still need sleeping pills. It's very hit and miss. Trazodone and amitriptyline are both effective sleeping pills but do have those pesky anticholinergic side effects I mentioned earlier.

Lastly, and perhaps most importantly: get tested for apnea if you're a snorer. Oftentimes walking up with a racing heart rate is because you stopped breathing and your scary dream was a response to the lack of oxygen not the cause of you waking up. This is dangerous long term and treatable

[troutman]

Good post Salmon Pharm!

Did my sleep apnea test last night. Results in two weeks.

[ben voyonsdonc]

Unisom is actually doxylamine which is an antihistamine but isn’t Benadryl. It is generally stronger than diphenhydramine. The hangover is also worse than the other OTC sleep aids.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by ben voyonsdonc

Unisom is actually doxylamine which is an antihistamine but isn’t Benadryl. It is generally stronger than diphenhydramine. The hangover is also worse than the other OTC sleep aids.

In the states Unisom is doxylamine, here it's just diphenhydramine. There was Unisom II for a while but it disappeared. Doxylamine has a longer duration of action which means you can still be quite tired 8-10 hours later.

Interestingly or not, doxylamine is the active ingredient in Diclectin which is given to pregnant moms for nausea. Nothing like making a nauseous tired pregnant woman even more tired

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

In the states Unisom is doxylamine, here it's just diphenhydramine. There was Unisom II for a while but it disappeared. Doxylamine has a longer duration of action which means you can still be quite tired 8-10 hours later.

Interestingly or not, doxylamine is the active ingredient in Diclectin which is given to pregnant moms for nausea. Nothing like making a nauseous tired pregnant woman even more tired

Yes. I'm sure some of this was even in English.