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Old 08-01-2022, 07:04 PM   #981
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It sounds like you're just too lazy to change your habits.
But Trudeau isn’t and doesn’t have to?

/CPlogic

What this guy gets away with on this website is hilarious in the face of climate change contrasted by his actions. If people truly believe that politicians shouldn’t be held to the same standards as other Canadians, or that politicians don’t have to- or shouldn’t be expected to- practice what they preach, then all of this makes sense. Otherwise it’s just team politics double speak and the likes of a poster like GGG saying it is surprising to say the least.

The truth is (and all of us know it and try to instil in our children hopefully) is that actions speak louder than words and this is just one more example in an extremely long list of hypocrisy from Trudeau about saying one thing and doing another. He is king maker, gets to make all these ####ing rules and regulations for all of us to follow, which economically impact millions across the country but then he isn’t expected to follow anywhere close to the same standards. It’s bull#### and straight up if the Cons did it I’d say the exact same thing. There’s a reason this guy is hated like no other PM in history. Phoniest, fakest loser ever to govern and doesn’t give a lick about literally anybody but himself- evidenced by his actions.

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Old 08-01-2022, 07:32 PM   #982
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Originally Posted by Mazrim View Post
It sounds like you're just too lazy to change your habits.

Sorry I thought that was very clear and I didn't need to type it! But my large point is the plastic ban was sold on river and ocean clean up wasn't it? I don't get that logic given Canadian garbage programs vs the world
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Old 08-01-2022, 07:45 PM   #983
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But Trudeau isnít and doesnít have to?

/CPlogic

What this guy gets away with on this website is hilarious in the face of climate change contrasted by his actions. If people truly believe that politicians shouldnít be held to the same standards as other Canadians, or that politicians donít have to- or shouldnít be expected to- practice what they preach, then all of this makes sense. Otherwise itís just team politics double speak and the likes of a poster like GGG saying it is surprising to say the least.

The truth is (and all of us know it and try to instil in our children hopefully) is that actions speak louder than words and this is just one more example in an extremely long list of hypocrisy from Trudeau about saying one thing and doing another. He is king maker, gets to make all these ####ing rules and regulations for all of us to follow, which economically impact millions across the country but then he isnít expected to follow anywhere close to the same standards. Itís bull#### and straight up if the Cons did it Iíd say the exact same thing. Thereís a reason this guy is hated like no other PM in history. Phoniest, fakest loser ever to govern and doesnít give a lick about literally anybody but himself- evidenced by his actions.
Can you explain how you would like a prime minister to logically eliminate travel.

And can you explain how not doing so is the same as refusing to adapt to something as simple as single-use plastic bans?

Actions speak louder than words but I find a lot of the loudest words come from people who havenít even bothered to make an effort to do the right actions or have any investment in those actions at all. Would you agree with that? Would you say youíve reached absolute climate conscious perfection in your own life?
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Old 08-01-2022, 07:49 PM   #984
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Signs and Symptoms of narcissistic personality disorder

1. Grandiose sense of self-importance...
2. Lives in a fantasy world that supports their delusions of grandeur...
3. Needs constant praise and admiration
4. Sense of entitlement...
5. Exploits others without guilt or shame...
6. Frequently demeans, intimidates, bullies, or belittles others
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Old 08-01-2022, 07:57 PM   #985
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Originally Posted by PepsiFree View Post
Can you explain how you would like a prime minister to logically eliminate travel.

And can you explain how not doing so is the same as refusing to adapt to something as simple as single-use plastic bans?

Actions speak louder than words but I find a lot of the loudest words come from people who haven’t even bothered to make an effort to do the right actions or have any investment in those actions at all. Would you agree with that? Would you say you’ve reached absolute climate conscious perfection in your own life?
No, of course not but I’m not the one imposing rules on everyone else. If I were, I would at least feign an attempt at it, otherwise the stupidity of the exercise would be too obvious for me to live with such instructions to the masses while at the same time gorging on my own selfish tastes and preferences. What kind of leader does this? A ####ty one.

Eliminating travel is super simple. For example the flight to Calgary for 6 hours to appear at a Stampede breakfast could extremely easily be eliminated with some tweets and or posts regarding support for the Stampede, Liberal MP he was supporting or whatever the hell he was trying to even accomplish. Boom, right there, one trip and thousands of miles eliminated. But on the whole COVID has obviously taught us that video conferences are easily doable and capable of communicating efficiently, so nothing is stopping him from having so many of his meetings this way.

The reality is, and you know it, that the reason he flies all over the place if for the exclusive personal benefit of campaigning basically. It does not really do much for the country when not leading to any kind of election and serves very little purpose. Hell I’d even rather defend his right to fly to Costa Rica and have a vacation I think he is absolutely entitled to, than fly around and photoshoot for no apparent reason?

The banning of single use plastics is part of Trudeaus brand and legacy as Prime Minister and is part and parcel with his fight against climate change. It’s one more item on his list of things he can claim he did to support the environment when in reality we know he actually did very little. If he wanted to achieve good things for climate change for example, he would wildly support Canadian oil and gas and agriculture practices and brag about them on the world stage in hopes of widespread adoption. He would try to coerce the modernizing BRIC nations to buy more Canadian and use more Canadian energy to reduce per capita emissions worldwide. He would follow through on his tree planting promises or enact thousands of other policies that actually make a difference. And yes, absolutely, he would lead by example to the best of his ability- not set year over year records of increasing flight mileage or make short stop flights easily commutable by car (if needed at all which is extremely dubious).
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Old 08-01-2022, 08:31 PM   #986
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Complaints about politicians travel schedules being hypocritical are 2nd only to complaints about expensing gum in stupidity.
I could care less about our PM flying around our country which is the 2nd largest in the world to travel around.

What I do care about is how the media had started a smear campaign against a celebrity musician for a short flight (that he apparently wasn't even on and was the charter just going home) and a conservative SK MP for flying 400km instead of driving, while simultaneously turning a blind eye to Trudeau's shorter flight from Kelowna to Penticton only to ride a bus back for a photo ops picking cherries at a farm to preach climate change. Media and public hypocrisy and double standards in order to support a narrative has never been grander

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/drake-und...lton-1.6001525

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Old 08-01-2022, 08:47 PM   #987
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Would you say you’ve reached absolute climate conscious perfection in your own life?
Why though? I hate this argument of shifting responsibility to the individual.
Its wrong and used to bypass the real culprits of climate change.

That said, still don't understand how the single use plastic ban in Canada is anything but political vote buying and not actually accomplishing anything.




Yes, I am aware they still propose you should reduce your impact at the end.
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Old 08-01-2022, 08:56 PM   #988
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No, of course not but Iím not the one imposing rules on everyone else. If I were, I would at least feign an attempt at it, otherwise the stupidity of the exercise would be too obvious for me to live with such instructions to the masses while at the same time gorging on my own selfish tastes and preferences. What kind of leader does this? A ####ty one.

Eliminating travel is super simple. For example the flight to Calgary for 6 hours to appear at a Stampede breakfast could extremely easily be eliminated with some tweets and or posts regarding support for the Stampede, Liberal MP he was supporting or whatever the hell he was trying to even accomplish. Boom, right there, one trip and thousands of miles eliminated. But on the whole COVID has obviously taught us that video conferences are easily doable and capable of communicating efficiently, so nothing is stopping him from having so many of his meetings this way.

The reality is, and you know it, that the reason he flies all over the place if for the exclusive personal benefit of campaigning basically. It does not really do much for the country when not leading to any kind of election and serves very little purpose. Hell Iíd even rather defend his right to fly to Costa Rica and have a vacation I think he is absolutely entitled to, than fly around and photoshoot for no apparent reason?

The banning of single use plastics is part of Trudeaus brand and legacy as Prime Minister and is part and parcel with his fight against climate change. Itís one more item on his list of things he can claim he did to support the environment when in reality we know he actually did very little. If he wanted to achieve good things for climate change for example, he would wildly support Canadian oil and gas and agriculture practices and brag about them on the world stage in hopes of widespread adoption. He would try to coerce the modernizing BRIC nations to buy more Canadian and use more Canadian energy to reduce per capita emissions worldwide. He would follow through on his tree planting promises or enact thousands of other policies that actually make a difference. And yes, absolutely, he would lead by example to the best of his ability- not set year over year records of increasing flight mileage or make short stop flights easily commutable by car (if needed at all which is extremely dubious).
Youíre not the one imposing rules on everyone else because thatís not your job, but you should recognise that it is part of Trudeauís. And if this is something that is important to you, whether he makes the rules or does them himself should have zero influence on whether you do them.

Is acting in a climate conscious way important to you? Is being a climate leader?

Would you say being able to use single-use plastics is more important to you than making personal changes for the benefit of the climate? Or do you think the ban is a good thing from an isolated standpoint (ignoring the other things that could be done or arenít being done).

On the other side of it, should we ban all business air travel?
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Old 08-01-2022, 09:07 PM   #989
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Why though? I hate this argument of shifting responsibility to the individual.
Its wrong and used to bypass the real culprits of climate change.
Because the person I was responding to was talking about an individualís responsibilities.

And it wasnít an argument, it was a question.

I understand though, you take no responsibility and want no responsibility. I donít find that to be a really interesting position and donít think thereís much use in discussing single-use plastics with a guy who just buys reusable bags every time. SoÖ yíknow.
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Old 08-01-2022, 09:25 PM   #990
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I could care less about our PM flying around our country which is the 2nd largest in the world to travel around.

What I do care about is how the media had started a smear campaign against a celebrity musician for a short flight (that he apparently wasn't even on and was the charter just going home) and a conservative SK MP for flying 400km instead of driving, while simultaneously turning a blind eye to Trudeau's shorter flight from Kelowna to Penticton only to ride a bus back for a photo ops picking cherries at a farm to preach climate change. Media and public hypocrisy and double standards in order to support a narrative has never been grander

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/drake-und...lton-1.6001525
Iím not sure how this is relevant unless itís to say CTV news also has crappy stories to enrage people??

So my response to this is itís also stupid to get riled up about Drake using private Jets.
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Old 08-01-2022, 09:45 PM   #991
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Wow strongly disagree. Trudeau is the one imposing widespread economic carnage in the pursuit of climate change across oil and gas and agriculture, so I think it's extremely fair game for people to point out that this leader is flying around non-stop and emitting a massive carbon footprint. I'm actually quite surprised that somebody would think that him being called out on it is "stupid" due to how extreme the contradiction of his travel is to the goals he is setting out to achieve in emissions reduction. There is nothing stopping Trudeau from using Microsoft Teams and as we have seen in the Ukraine crisis it's extremely possible for politicians to communicate electronically vs. in-person. Obviously yes, politicians will need to travel more than the average person but when you're setting new mileage records it is broaching a stupidity of Marie Antoinette levels that for people to point it out is 110% fair game.

Not surprising that Canadians will somehow pretzel twist logic their way into defending it though in the spirit of team politics.

Imagine if Poilievre, bastion of financial conservatism was reported to have maxxed out Visas and enormous debt loads. You'd get the same sort of skepticism.

At some point we should expect politicians to actually practice what they preach. Pointing it out is not "stupid" at all. In fact, questioning people questioning it seems kind of stupid to me.

And again that would be a stupid argument. Trudeauís a plastic politician, a smiley face to enact policy that helps out cronies. There is real news needing reporting. Itís just such garbage designed for clicks of people who already donít like him. Then the other side gets to say look at those idiots complaining about travel donít politicians have to travel. Then when the other party is in power itís reversed and the exact same stories get published. Why would a fiscal conservative expense gum or eat at the hotel.

Itís not journalism, it does nothing for discourse, itís not relevant to anything but people who egage in click bait journalism. 10 places Trudeau travelled on your carbon emissions, number 7 will surprise you.

It just doesnít matter.

How about a story on how the proposed US climate policy will impact Canada and what Canada will do about. Or how current and past regulation limited LNG investment and whose at fault. How about a revisit if WE and SNC and what we have learned and where are the unanswered questions. Whatís going on today at the Irving Shipyards? How is Trudeau continue to fail to bring clean water to reserves. How is the current carbon tax system in each province doing at reducing Carbon. Something about productivity vs supply chain vs inflation.

Or if you want to get mad about travel at least show the amount of travel compared to other politicians and discuss and critique the value of each trip and how it should be eliminated, moved, or made virtual and what the benefit and costs would have been. Then compare that travel in terms of days and kms with other states. Put some real effort in instead of a list of where he travelled.

For example he flew to Calgary for Stampede. If he hadnít there would be a perception that the government doesnít care about Alberta, that perception fuels nationalism in Alberta which is damaging to Canada. So Id argue the in person visit for 6 hrs of stampede makes sense even if itís Tokenism. Same with the visit with the Pope is required for diplomacy and for the goals of reconciliation. So if someone spent the time actually doing journalism it would be a tolerable waste time instead of just being stupid.

That concludes my monthly rant on how bad current media is and how people suck at consuming news
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Old 08-01-2022, 09:55 PM   #992
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And again that would be a stupid argument. Trudeau’s a plastic politician, a smiley face to enact policy that helps out cronies. There is real news needing reporting. It’s just such garbage designed for clicks of people who already don’t like him. Then the other side gets to say look at those idiots complaining about travel don’t politicians have to travel. Then when the other party is in power it’s reversed and the exact same stories get published. Why would a fiscal conservative expense gum or eat at the hotel.

It’s not journalism, it does nothing for discourse, it’s not relevant to anything but people who egage in click bait journalism. 10 places Trudeau travelled on your carbon emissions, number 7 will surprise you.

It just doesn’t matter.

How about a story on how the proposed US climate policy will impact Canada and what Canada will do about. Or how current and past regulation limited LNG investment and whose at fault. How about a revisit if WE and SNC and what we have learned and where are the unanswered questions. What’s going on today at the Irving Shipyards? How is Trudeau continue to fail to bring clean water to reserves. How is the current carbon tax system in each province doing at reducing Carbon. Something about productivity vs supply chain vs inflation.

Or if you want to get mad about travel at least show the amount of travel compared to other politicians and discuss and critique the value of each trip and how it should be eliminated, moved, or made virtual and what the benefit and costs would have been. Then compare that travel in terms of days and kms with other states. Put some real effort in instead of a list of where he travelled.

For example he flew to Calgary for Stampede. If he hadn’t there would be a perception that the government doesn’t care about Alberta, that perception fuels nationalism in Alberta which is damaging to Canada. So Id argue the in person visit for 6 hrs of stampede makes sense even if it’s Tokenism. Same with the visit with the Pope is required for diplomacy and for the goals of reconciliation. So if someone spent the time actually doing journalism it would be a tolerable waste time instead of just being stupid.

That concludes my monthly rant on how bad current media is and how people suck at consuming news
No I don’t think that’s quite true though. I think it is very relevant what our leaders do, they are Canadian leaders after all and represent the country on a global / national level. They are to enact policy reflecting the desires and wishes of the majority, and I think the majority of Canadians do genuinely care about climate change, which I personally find to be quite a confusing topic and one with which I am highly uncertain as to what is necessarily right or wrong. This is why I have a tough time answering Pepsifree straight up about my own actions vs. those of Trudeaus because my actions are entirely irrelevant to the conversation and contextually wildly different than the actions of Trudeaus has established a position and has enacted policy to the detriment of millions of people. I also honestly don’t know where I stand on the issue of what policy to take or what actions to do.

If you make a decision as leader of a country, your actions of course are relevant to the national discourse and should be reported on in the news. Because of what you’re doing is the opposite of what you’re saying, what are you trying to lead people to do or why are you doing it? It doesn’t make any sense. So to equate Mr Coffee to Trudeaus actions are irrelevant noise to my point. And you don’t get to just blithely say what people should or shouldn’t care about with regard to what they want to see in a leader.

In fact I think you’re quite wrong on this entirely. It does quite a bit for discourse and thought exercise because a) it correctly points out quite obtusely just how difficult reducing emissions is B) correctly points out that those supposed leaders that “care” about it obviously truly don’t which is hugely relevant actually (what else are they saying they care about that they don’t??) and c) maybe can get other Canadians who DO care about climate change to consider how much THEY travel. All of these points are relevant, and not “stupid” or even just “click bait”. Scandals and the like are not “click bait”. People need transparency in government.

I agree to your point about US LNG policy though.

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Old 08-01-2022, 09:58 PM   #993
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Because the person I was responding to was talking about an individual’s responsibilities.

And it wasn’t an argument, it was a question.

I understand though, you take no responsibility and want no responsibility. I don’t find that to be a really interesting position and don’t think there’s much use in discussing single-use plastics with a guy who just buys reusable bags every time. So… y’know.
Ha ha I can honestly see why you would make a leap that I want zero responsibility for my impact on climate change based on my last response to you, so all I will say is that isn't true. What I will say is holding our politicians to meaningful policies matters infinitely more then my personal actions. And I mean the word infinitely here.

And no, despite any previous words, I don't buy new bags each time, I just tend to have mind farts and forget to put them in the car or my hand a great deal of time. I invested in irrigation so I could water at 4am to help reduce water waste!

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Old 08-02-2022, 08:11 AM   #994
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Ha ha I can honestly see why you would make a leap that I want zero responsibility for my impact on climate change based on my last response to you, so all I will say is that isn't true. What I will say is holding our politicians to meaningful policies matters infinitely more then my personal actions. And I mean the word infinitely here.

And no, despite any previous words, I don't buy new bags each time, I just tend to have mind farts and forget to put them in the car or my hand a great deal of time. I invested in irrigation so I could water at 4am to help reduce water waste!
I agree policies matter more than individual actions. I think that also includes the travel schedule of world leaders. I do think that when the focus is on something silly like travel schedules then you should expect it to come from someone who cares deeply about climate change and is holding individual responsibility very highly, otherwise itís petty nonsense. Hypothetically, if the Liberals were pushing meaningful climate change policies that had a great impact, I wouldnít care if Trudeau was acting like a fool and dumping motor oil down the kitchen sink.

For single-use plastics, though, you seem to be trying to play it off both ways. If itís ineffective and enough people are like you who donít care/forget to further reduce the effectiveness by a significant margin, then even if Trudeau uses it as something he can point to, nobody (including ďthe leftĒ heís pandering to) will care. On the other hand, if it is effective pandering and something he can point to as a meaningful action, then it shows that your personal anecdote doesnít matter and doesnít have a meaningful impact so shouldnít affect policy.

You still havenít come remotely close to showing why the single-use plastic ban should be reversed, only that you feel it shouldnít have been enacted in the first place. Which is fined but given the costs of switching over in the first place, you have to do more than that.
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Old 08-02-2022, 08:32 AM   #995
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I agree policies matter more than individual actions. I think that also includes the travel schedule of world leaders. I do think that when the focus is on something silly like travel schedules then you should expect it to come from someone who cares deeply about climate change and is holding individual responsibility very highly, otherwise it’s petty nonsense. Hypothetically, if the Liberals were pushing meaningful climate change policies that had a great impact, I wouldn’t care if Trudeau was acting like a fool and dumping motor oil down the kitchen sink.

For single-use plastics, though, you seem to be trying to play it off both ways. If it’s ineffective and enough people are like you who don’t care/forget to further reduce the effectiveness by a significant margin, then even if Trudeau uses it as something he can point to, nobody (including “the left” he’s pandering to) will care. On the other hand, if it is effective pandering and something he can point to as a meaningful action, then it shows that your personal anecdote doesn’t matter and doesn’t have a meaningful impact so shouldn’t affect policy.

You still haven’t come remotely close to showing why the single-use plastic ban should be reversed, only that you feel it shouldn’t have been enacted in the first place. Which is fined but given the costs of switching over in the first place, you have to do more than that.

So your post kind of makes my point and shows the confusion around the policy. Me forgetting my bags at home and buying new ones, isn't negatively impacting the objectives of said policy. The policy was never about greenhouse gasses or raw materials, it is solely about reducing plastic waste in waterways.

https://www.canada.ca/en/environment...-plastics.html

Given I don't litter, and all my plastic gets recycles or put into proper City of Calgary garbage facilities, my actions at the grocery store has zero impact on the policy goals. So, if every single person like me who properly recycles and lives in a City with proper waste management don't care or forget- it has zero impact on the effectiveness of the policy goals.

As for why its a dumb policy, I posted a link of where the main sources of plastic ends up in our oceans. None of our rivers make a rounding error there, but yet the government has chosen to limit consumer and industry options. Again, here is my leap in logic, but it also adds GhG given people won't be perfect and forgetting once has a huge impact- nevermind me forgetting often

https://news.climate.columbia.edu/20...plastic%20bags.

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Life cycle studies done in Europe and North America have determined that, overall, plastic bags are better for the environment than paper or reusable bags unless the latter are used many times. Most, however, did not consider the problem of litter, which we know is a major drawback of plastic bags.
And lastly, I don't go out without bags in some sort of childish way to spite the Liberals, I just am out already and moved my bags in from my car, or out for a walk and didn't want to carry bags with me in the chance I stopped by the store. And yes, many times I randomly stop by the store walking and end up hauling enough home I need multiple bags - I get in there and realize I "need" more - ohh berries are on sale finally, etc.

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Old 08-02-2022, 09:00 AM   #996
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So your post kind of makes my point and shows the confusion around the policy. Me forgetting my bags at home and buying new ones, isn't negatively impacting the objectives of said policy. The policy was never about greenhouse gasses or raw materials, it is solely about reducing plastic waste in waterways.

https://www.canada.ca/en/environment...-plastics.html

Given I don't litter, and all my plastic gets recycles or put into proper City of Calgary garbage facilities, my actions at the grocery store has zero impact on the policy goals. So, if every single person like me who properly recycles and lives in a City with proper waste management don't care or forget- it has zero impact on the effectiveness of the policy goals.

As for why its a dumb policy, I posted a link of where the main sources of plastic ends up in our oceans. None of our rivers make a rounding error there, but yet the government has chosen to limit consumer and industry options. Again, here is my leap in logic, but it also adds GhG given people won't be perfect and forgetting once has a huge impact- nevermind me forgetting often

https://news.climate.columbia.edu/20...plastic%20bags.



And lastly, I don't go out without bags in some sort of childish way to spite the Liberals, I just am out already and moved my bags in from my car, or out for a walk and didn't want to carry bags with me in the chance I stopped by the store. And yes, many times I randomly stop by the store walking and end up hauling enough home I need multiple bags - I get in there and realize I "need" more - ohh berries are on sale finally, etc.
I used to forget by bags but it becomes a habit.

And yes - we are a rounding error. But we have to do our part.

I mean China has banned a lot of single use plastics - https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-51171491

So has India - https://www.npr.org/2022/07/01/11094...ics-ban-begins

Its not like we are doing something wild that other places aren't doing. Those are the places everyone brings up when it comes to climate change.
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Old 08-02-2022, 09:46 AM   #997
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But Trudeau isnít and doesnít have to?

/CPlogic

What this guy gets away with on this website
is hilarious in the face of climate change contrasted by his actions. If people truly believe that politicians shouldnít be held to the same standards as other Canadians, or that politicians donít have to- or shouldnít be expected to- practice what they preach, then all of this makes sense. Otherwise itís just team politics double speak and the likes of a poster like GGG saying it is surprising to say the least.

The truth is (and all of us know it and try to instil in our children hopefully) is that actions speak louder than words and this is just one more example in an extremely long list of hypocrisy from Trudeau about saying one thing and doing another. He is king maker, gets to make all these ####ing rules and regulations for all of us to follow, which economically impact millions across the country but then he isnít expected to follow anywhere close to the same standards. Itís bull#### and straight up if the Cons did it Iíd say the exact same thing. Thereís a reason this guy is hated like no other PM in history. Phoniest, fakest loser ever to govern and doesnít give a lick about literally anybody but himself- evidenced by his actions.
This is a hot take. There are more posters unapologetically bashing Trudeau then there are apologetically defending him, and there are virtually zero people unpoetically defending him.
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Old 08-02-2022, 09:55 AM   #998
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Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden View Post
This is a hot take. There are more posters unapologetically bashing Trudeau then there are apologetically defending him, and there are virtually zero people unpoetically defending him.
Trudeau had nice hair
but then sat in the chair
and gave Conservatives a scare
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Old 08-02-2022, 10:19 AM   #999
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Eliminating travel is super simple. For example the flight to Calgary for 6 hours to appear at a Stampede breakfast could extremely easily be eliminated with some tweets and or posts regarding support for the Stampede
Then we'd have you in here arguing that him not coming to the Stampede was yet another example of his hate for Alberta. Let's be real.
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Old 08-02-2022, 10:36 AM   #1000
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Did Trudeau not come to Stampede?!
Is that how a PM should lead?
He must hate the West
And think Laurentians are best
Maybe it’s time we secede!
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