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Old 07-11-2019, 12:55 PM   #61
chemgear
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As safe as one can get injecting drugs with a needle on the street.

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Wait, my post? Or am I being dumb?
Naw, people projecting I think.
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Old 07-11-2019, 12:58 PM   #62
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Wait, my post? Or am I being dumb?
No, not you. There have been a few posts in this thread that come across that way, though. I get that some of the downsides of safe injection sites certainly have an impact on the surrounding community, but the alternative has clearly proven to be worse.
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Old 07-11-2019, 01:23 PM   #63
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The reason people are homeless is because they have no homes.

If Vancouver wasn't a cesspool of corruption, the homeless problem wouldn't be near the issue it is.

We have low taxes though so weeeeeee.
I'm not sure it fits the concept of corruption, but there is definitely a lot of inaction coming from the government.

There's been several high profile cases of drug traffickers laundering money through BC casinos, and then using that money to buy real estate. So basically, we have Fentanyl pushers poisoning people, and then using the profits to drive up housing prices and push more people onto the streets.

Meanwhile, the government skims taxes off the top at every step.

I also do suspect their is actual corruption in the building permit process. It seems a though a select number of people are getting the lion's share of the permits. The permits also seem to leak out in a way that never satisfies demand, so that new units are always sold at a premium.

Gregor Robertson's degree of inaction was startling. He was elected on a platform of ending homelessness, but then refused to even acknowledge the affect of foreign investment on home affordability.
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Old 07-11-2019, 01:23 PM   #64
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No, not you. There have been a few posts in this thread that come across that way, though. I get that some of the downsides of safe injection sites certainly have an impact on the surrounding community, but the alternative has clearly proven to be worse.
Absolutely. The comment about the area around Shumir becoming a "mini East Hastings" thanks to the NDP almost made me laugh out loud at my desk.

People don't tend to care about the problem, they just don't want to see it. Some of those people would probably rather have drug addicts die or get sick from dirty needles than having drug addicts drawn to their neighbourhood for any reason, even if it's an overall improvement in safety. Even if they wouldn't publically admit it, it's out of sight, out of mind.

My feeling is that safe injection sites are a net positive no matter how you break it down. It's valid if you don't like the effects on your community, but if it wasn't yours, it'd be someone else's. The answer isn't to close them up, but to push for a better solution so the need for them isn't there. It's not like the drug addicts just come from nowhere when a safe injection site opens up.
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Old 07-11-2019, 01:25 PM   #65
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I'm not sure it fits the concept of corruption, but there is definitely a lot of inaction coming from the government.

There's been several high profile cases of drug traffickers laundering money through BC casinos, and then using that money to buy real estate. So basically, we have Fentanyl pushers poisoning people, and then using the profits to drive up housing prices and push more people onto the streets.

Meanwhile, the government skims taxes off the top at every step.

I also do suspect their is actual corruption in the building permit process. It seems a though a select number of people are getting the lion's share of the permits. The permits also seem to leak out in a way that never satisfies demand, so that new units are always sold at a premium.

Gregor Robertson's degree of inaction was startling. He was elected on a platform of ending homelessness, but then refused to even acknowledge the affect of foreign investment on home affordability.
Vision was a hell of a lot better than whatever this current Council is. It's a joke.
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Old 07-11-2019, 01:30 PM   #66
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Absolutely. The comment about the area around Shumir becoming a "mini East Hastings" thanks to the NDP almost made me laugh out loud at my desk.

People don't tend to care about the problem, they just don't want to see it. Some of those people would probably rather have drug addicts die or get sick from dirty needles than having drug addicts drawn to their neighbourhood for any reason, even if it's an overall improvement in safety. Even if they wouldn't publically admit it, it's out of sight, out of mind.

My feeling is that safe injection sites are a net positive no matter how you break it down. It's valid if you don't like the effects on your community, but if it wasn't yours, it'd be someone else's. The answer isn't to close them up, but to push for a better solution so the need for them isn't there. It's not like the drug addicts just come from nowhere when a safe injection site opens up.
I agree. Safe injection sites aren't likely to encourage people to become drug addicts, but they do substantially reduce drug addiction related health care costs.

It's more or less conclusively shown that the vast majority of addicts become addicts due to underlying emotional/psychological issues. Facilitating injection is, therefore, not likely to encourage existing addicts to keep using either. The safe injection sites do offer counselling.

All this being said....If I'd spent my life savings on a home to raise a family, I'd be ticked off if an injection site opened up next door. Any sane person should, and we all have some degree of NIMBYism.
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Old 07-11-2019, 01:34 PM   #67
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Vision was a hell of a lot better than whatever this current Council is. It's a joke.
The current provincial government is actually taking steps towards ending the housing crisis. However, it all seems too little too late. The money from China has stopped, largely due to regulations and economic factors in China. The NDP put in their easily avoidable foreign buyers tax and are taking credit for the end to foreign investment. The foreign investment has, however, dried up globally due to, as stated, domestic factors in China.
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Old 07-11-2019, 01:51 PM   #68
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I'm not sure it fits the concept of corruption, but there is definitely a lot of inaction coming from the government.

There's been several high profile cases of drug traffickers laundering money through BC casinos, and then using that money to buy real estate. So basically, we have Fentanyl pushers poisoning people, and then using the profits to drive up housing prices and push more people onto the streets.

Meanwhile, the government skims taxes off the top at every step.

I also do suspect their is actual corruption in the building permit process. It seems a though a select number of people are getting the lion's share of the permits. The permits also seem to leak out in a way that never satisfies demand, so that new units are always sold at a premium.

Gregor Robertson's degree of inaction was startling. He was elected on a platform of ending homelessness, but then refused to even acknowledge the affect of foreign investment on home affordability.
Id say being told by the RCMP of rank money laundering through bc casinos and then having the taskforce for anti money laundering in casinos to be disbanded by the bc attorney general is corruption.

Straight, criminal corruption.
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Old 07-11-2019, 02:19 PM   #69
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The current provincial government is actually taking steps towards ending the housing crisis. However, it all seems too little too late. The money from China has stopped, largely due to regulations and economic factors in China. The NDP put in their easily avoidable foreign buyers tax and are taking credit for the end to foreign investment. The foreign investment has, however, dried up globally due to, as stated, domestic factors in China.
We need to build a hell of a lot more houses if we want to end this housing crisis.
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Old 07-12-2019, 09:13 AM   #70
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I agree. Safe injection sites aren't likely to encourage people to become drug addicts, but they do substantially reduce drug addiction related health care costs.

It's more or less conclusively shown that the vast majority of addicts become addicts due to underlying emotional/psychological issues. Facilitating injection is, therefore, not likely to encourage existing addicts to keep using either. The safe injection sites do offer counselling.

All this being said....If I'd spent my life savings on a home to raise a family, I'd be ticked off if an injection site opened up next door. Any sane person should, and we all have some degree of NIMBYism.
I wonder though..You said there is a user community built-up around these safe injection sites in Vancouver . And these communities encourage drug use. They aren't trying to get people to quit.

So maybe these safe injection sites are providing users with safe and clean needles, which is good. But it also works as a networking centre of sorts. You meet like minded junkies who are happy to live that life. So instead of trying to change or seek help they keep on living for that next high. And probably fall deeper down that spiral.

Once again I'll go back to alcohol. If I'm an alcoholic is it really a good idea for me to be going to a place where other alcoholics go? They have no interest in stopping. Is it healthy for me to spend time with these people?
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Old 07-12-2019, 09:47 AM   #71
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I wonder though..You said there is a user community built-up around these safe injection sites in Vancouver . And these communities encourage drug use. They aren't trying to get people to quit.

So maybe these safe injection sites are providing users with safe and clean needles, which is good. But it also works as a networking centre of sorts. You meet like minded junkies who are happy to live that life. So instead of trying to change or seek help they keep on living for that next high. And probably fall deeper down that spiral.

Once again I'll go back to alcohol. If I'm an alcoholic is it really a good idea for me to be going to a place where other alcoholics go? They have no interest in stopping. Is it healthy for me to spend time with these people?
One of my close friends runs all of the mobile needle exchange/harm reduction vans in town. Basically, services where addicts can dispose of their sharps, get new needles/condoms/materials, whatever. It is an insane job, but let me tell you, while the first goal is making sure that addicts/sex workers go about their lives in a way that is somewhat risk managed, the close second is ensuring that drug users get help when they need it.
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Old 07-12-2019, 09:53 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by savemedrzaius View Post
I wonder though..You said there is a user community built-up around these safe injection sites in Vancouver . And these communities encourage drug use. They aren't trying to get people to quit.

So maybe these safe injection sites are providing users with safe and clean needles, which is good. But it also works as a networking centre of sorts. You meet like minded junkies who are happy to live that life. So instead of trying to change or seek help they keep on living for that next high. And probably fall deeper down that spiral.

Once again I'll go back to alcohol. If I'm an alcoholic is it really a good idea for me to be going to a place where other alcoholics go? They have no interest in stopping. Is it healthy for me to spend time with these people?
Do you honestly think this situation is more likely to happen at a place that actually offers addiction support than away from it?

SI sites don't create the community, but they can centralize it. They also centralize it around the safest possible place and one that offers help.

As an alcoholic who wanted to seek help, do you think your chances are better at the bar? Or at an AA meeting with a bar beside it? It's still up to you how things go, but one seems like a no-brainer over the other.
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Old 07-12-2019, 10:08 AM   #73
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I wonder though..You said there is a user community built-up around these safe injection sites in Vancouver . And these communities encourage drug use. They aren't trying to get people to quit.

So maybe these safe injection sites are providing users with safe and clean needles, which is good. But it also works as a networking centre of sorts. You meet like minded junkies who are happy to live that life. So instead of trying to change or seek help they keep on living for that next high. And probably fall deeper down that spiral.

Once again I'll go back to alcohol. If I'm an alcoholic is it really a good idea for me to be going to a place where other alcoholics go? They have no interest in stopping. Is it healthy for me to spend time with these people?
Drug users will always congregate into mini-villages. Safe injection sites ensure that there are treatment options in those places they congregate.
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Old 07-12-2019, 10:21 AM   #74
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The community already existed. Safe injection site just another level of harm reduction.
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Old 07-12-2019, 04:30 PM   #75
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We need to build a hell of a lot more houses if we want to end this housing crisis.
Homes, not houses. Knock down houses to build more housing. Drives me nuts when media reports on the affordability issues looking at house prices. Supply of houses needs to shrink, which will push their prices up. The more houses are rezoned and developed to condos, the better.
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Old 07-13-2019, 04:24 AM   #76
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I've visited to and lived in many cities across the world.

Vancouver is the only one where I felt legitimately unsafe.

I stayed at St Clair Hotel-Hostel...I know not a great place but it had good reviews and I was a solo traveller.

I was coming from China so my sleeping was all messed up and at around 5 am I went out to get a coffee. There was a guy shooting up right outside the door. I've never seen that in my life.

Then walking around there are too many people who are really messed up on drugs. You don't know what they are going to do because there's a group of them and they are all completely out of it.

That's why I don't understand how Vancouver is ranked as such a great city. With such a huge pocket like that it comes across as a ####hole to me.
I hope you didn't check out Oppenheimer Park. https://globalnews.ca/video/5486937/...vancouver-park
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Old 07-13-2019, 12:48 PM   #77
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Homes, not houses. Knock down houses to build more housing. Drives me nuts when media reports on the affordability issues looking at house prices. Supply of houses needs to shrink, which will push their prices up. The more houses are rezoned and developed to condos, the better.
Be careful, a bunch of people will get mad when you call a condo a "home".
There is no winning with Vancouverites.
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Old 07-13-2019, 01:15 PM   #78
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Homes, not houses. Knock down houses to build more housing. Drives me nuts when media reports on the affordability issues looking at house prices. Supply of houses needs to shrink, which will push their prices up. The more houses are rezoned and developed to condos, the better.
In order to make any strategy work they need to curtail foreign investment. The amount of capital flooding into the country was enough to absorb all of the new condos. I'd like to see a few high profile enforcements of the new rules, where properties are actually confiscated from people trying to dodge the new rules.
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Old 07-13-2019, 01:18 PM   #79
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Regent Park and Cabbagetown in Toronto are more scarier to walk through.
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Old 07-13-2019, 02:20 PM   #80
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Be careful, a bunch of people will get mad when you call a condo a "home".
There is no winning with Vancouverites.
Preaching to the Choir there.
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