IMO Star Wars is best as a Space Western or WWII in space. When it goes full space wizards with laser swords, Star Wars sucks.
Space Western with a hint of space wizardry, that's the Mandalorian. WWII in space with a hint of space wizardry, that's Rogue One.
WWII in space with space cowboys and space wizards with laser swords, that's ANH and ESB.
Full on space wizardry with laser swords, that's the prequels and sequels.
in one of the Mandalorian behind the scenes episodes, they make an important distinction between building the new show on top of the old school serials that George grew up with, versus building on top of the existing Star Wars materials that themselves were already one level removed from the classic westerns and WW2 footage.
luckily for us they chose option #1 which is why Mandalorian feels appropriately respectful and nostalgic without crossing over into obnoxious or repetitive. always make a photocopy from the original, not from another photocopy.
Highest emotion level, awesome score, the most at stake, and the best actual dueling.
If people would just get over themselves, they could enjoy the prequels as I have and my father before me.
I'm sorry but if that movie endowed you with a sense of emotion and stakes, you were watching something else. It was a freakin day time mexican soap, in terms of quality of acting and script. there was just no way to pull me into that enough to make me give a dam about even characters I already knew and loved.
And Snoke throne room, is the best duel. Because of the character development and storytelling within the Scene. (I can see why others would like RoTJ throne room for the same reason, but over time the land/space/duel constant cutaways have become a distracting trope of Star Wars for me, just let the scene playout.)
Emotional stakes is the reason I think the Ashoka/Vader duel is the tops. It's the first time they've seen each other alive. As an audience, we only JUST learned of Ashoka's survival of Order 66, and while you think she knew Vader was Anakin, it's never really been explicitly stated until now. There is a genuine moment where you think they might have made a connection that will save him (even though you know from knowing the future, that its impossible). The emotion displayed in Anakin's single, 3-D animated, cartoon eyeball between "I won't leave you. Not this time." and "Then you will die." is superior to anything piece of acting seen in any of the contemporary films. Add on that you get left not sure if Ashoka survives this encounter or not. And in fact, as audience, you're pretty much supposed to understand that she dies here. How could she not? Vader obviously lives, so...
And for those that like the clunker, grittier battles of the OT over the stylized choreography of the PT, this is such a great mixture of the grit of an actual sword fight combined with the super human abilities of top-tier Jedi. I mean, she actually gets a solid hit on Vader, and we get a reminder that he's still a young man underneath the armour.
This moment is worth sitting through every single bad (or good) episode of Clone Wars and Rebels.
It's been posted many times, but it's worth it again.
I'm sorry but if that movie endowed you with a sense of emotion and stakes, you were watching something else. It was a freakin day time mexican soap, in terms of quality of acting and script. there was just no way to pull me into that enough to make me give a dam about even characters I already knew and loved.
And Snoke throne room, is the best duel. Because of the character development and storytelling within the Scene. (I can see why others would like RoTJ throne room for the same reason, but over time the land/space/duel constant cutaways have become a distracting trope of Star Wars for me, just let the scene playout.)
Anakin and Obi-Wan had a long relationship that should have meant their final fight was tragic, but the movies did an awful job of establishing that basis because we never saw them do anything other than bicker like an old couple that can't stand each other. If the lead-up to that fight was everything in Clone Wars, then it would have given people the feels it was supposed to (along with a better director and screenwriter obviously).
RoTJ duel did almost everything right in terms of having both participants struggle on loyalty to family versus pull of the dark side. that was a relationship that began all the way back in the death star trench run, and somehow it even made you feel bad for Vader when he got his hand chopped, looking weak and defenseless against his son who was on the brink of giving in to his anger.
you're seriously comparing that to Snoke throne room duel where the they fought a bunch of literally nameless, faceless guards, one of whom gets comically shredded as if he fell into a giant cartoon log chipper? yes we are cheering for Rey and Kylo to win and yes there were a few cool moves, but in the end it was just a skirmish against better armed and better trained stormtroopers. zero emotional impact.
The Following User Says Thank You to Inglewood Jack For This Useful Post:
Anakin and Obi-Wan had a long relationship that should have meant their final fight was tragic, but the movies did an awful job of establishing that basis because we never saw them do anything other than bicker like an old couple that can't stand each other. If the lead-up to that fight was everything in Clone Wars, then it would have given people the feels it was supposed to (along with a better director and screenwriter obviously).
RoTJ duel did almost everything right in terms of having both participants struggle on loyalty to family versus pull of the dark side. that was a relationship that began all the way back in the death star trench run, and somehow it even made you feel bad for Vader when he got his hand chopped, looking weak and defenseless against his son who was on the brink of giving in to his anger.
you're seriously comparing that to Snoke throne room duel where the they fought a bunch of literally nameless, faceless guards, one of whom gets comically shredded as if he fell into a giant cartoon log chipper? yes we are cheering for Rey and Kylo to win and yes there were a few cool moves, but in the end it was just a skirmish against better armed and better trained stormtroopers. zero emotional impact.
The Snoke one had nothing to do with the nameless guys, they were just props. It was about the pull between light and dark for Kylo. The give you all the advanced warning and Dramatic tension for him helping Rey so you expect it. Then they blindside you with the conversation at the end, she turns to him says we did it, now lets go save the day, and he says to her No that's not this story. it was completely designed to mirror RotJ when vader was torn chose to fight for the darkside and in the end turned to Luke and said No actually I will fight with you.
IMO Star Wars is best as a Space Western or WWII in space. When it goes full space wizards with laser swords, Star Wars sucks.
Space Western with a hint of space wizardry, that's the Mandalorian. WWII in space with a hint of space wizardry, that's Rogue One.
WWII in space with space cowboys and space wizards with laser swords, that's ANH and ESB.
Full on space wizardry with laser swords, that's the prequels and sequels.
I agree. Part of what does that is the "Western/WW II" angle just feels far more lived in. When they go full space wizard, the sets turn from real desserts into CGI space buildings. You also lose the feeling of real people living and working in a real world. Instead you get a philosophical discussion about how mitochlorians impact the galactic senate followed by light sabers spinning in the air.
IMO Star Wars is best as a Space Western or WWII in space. When it goes full space wizards with laser swords, Star Wars sucks.
Space Western with a hint of space wizardry, that's the Mandalorian. WWII in space with a hint of space wizardry, that's Rogue One.
WWII in space with space cowboys and space wizards with laser swords, that's ANH and ESB.
Full on space wizardry with laser swords, that's the prequels and sequels.
Its almost as though 'Mysticism' shouldnt be front and centre and the complete basis for your entire Universe as opposed to being, I dont know....mystic?
__________________ The Beatings Shall Continue Until Morale Improves!
This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.
If you are flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a Fire Exit. - Mitch Hedberg
The Following User Says Thank You to Locke For This Useful Post:
The Snoke one had nothing to do with the nameless guys, they were just props. It was about the pull between light and dark for Kylo. The give you all the advanced warning and Dramatic tension for him helping Rey so you expect it. Then they blindside you with the conversation at the end, she turns to him says we did it, now lets go save the day, and he says to her No that's not this story. it was completely designed to mirror RotJ when vader was torn chose to fight for the darkside and in the end turned to Luke and said No actually I will fight with you.
Sure, but to me there was less then zero suspense to it. As soon as Snoke died, I was like Ren is going to screw over Rey and try to bring her to the darkside, or the third movie will be about a galaxy at peace and Rey and Ren raising space bunnies.
There was some neat technique in the fight, but again here's the problem. Force users are faster and have precognition. So realistically those space troopers should have been dead within two seconds, they should have literally been the batttle droids of this movie.
I mean they missed so many things. The Knights of Ren, the students that left the burning academy with Ren. Instead the Knights of Ren became the Phasma of the third movie and those lost jedi that should have been either the knights of Ren or cool dark side acolytes to fight as semi bad asses were non existent.
Its just like the kid with the broom at the end of TLJ, why the hell did they bother with it, besides oh it looked cool, hope.
I got back to the incoherence of the story line of the sequels, and that Rian and JJ had entirely different stories in their mind and some idiot signed off on a script for the second movie that blew up the story line from the first, and forced a incredibly patchworked third movie.
I mean for me honestly the best scene in that second movie was the hyperspace ramming of Snoke's Ship. But then I'm sitting there going, this can't be new science in a GFFA, why didn't the rebels load up a cruiser or 2 with explosives and put a single pilot in each ship, and then hyperspace them right at the Death Star. It would have cost them less lives in the long run, and the Emperor probably wouldn't have commissioned a new death star because it wouldn't have been a fluke.
I know I know story telling and the miraculous shot by Luke with the Force.
I mean I even said that the Prequels had some serious warts to them. But at least there was a coherent story line, and at least the characters were consistent throughout those three movies.
Its pretty much a fact that Jar Jar was a tremendously annoying and stupid character in the first movie, destroyed the republic in the second movie, and had 2 seconds of screen time in the third movie. But in the ST, Rian was the Jar Jar Binks. He wasn't there in the first one, destroyed the trilogy in the second one, and though he wasn't there in the third one, they spent the whole movie trying to patchwork fix his blunders and ended up creating a wildly different version of Palpatine that made him look like a schmuck.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Kathleen Kennedy was the Jar Jar of the sequel trilogy. How someone with that resume can go into a tent pole franchise trilogy without a plan is unfathomable.
It annoys me that she's still in charge of it.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterJoji
Johnny eats garbage and isn’t 100% committed.
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to nik- For This Useful Post:
Kathleen Kennedy was the Jar Jar of the sequel trilogy. How someone with that resume can go into a tent pole franchise trilogy without a plan is unfathomable.
It annoys me that she's still in charge of it.
I dont know how she got away with this. I mean....she made a lot of money, granted, but she also pissed away a ton of potential money.
Any normal person who screwed up this badly would be halfway to Mars by now.
__________________ The Beatings Shall Continue Until Morale Improves!
This Post Has Been Distilled for the Eradication of Seemingly Incurable Sadness.
If you are flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a Fire Exit. - Mitch Hedberg
Kathleen Kennedy was the Jar Jar of the sequel trilogy. How someone with that resume can go into a tent pole franchise trilogy without a plan is unfathomable.
It annoys me that she's still in charge of it.
Nm. Misread. We are in agreement.
Last edited by Cecil Terwilliger; 11-26-2020 at 04:49 PM.
I dont know how she got away with this. I mean....she made a lot of money, granted, but she also pissed away a ton of potential money.
Any normal person who screwed up this badly would be halfway to Mars by now.
I mean, I look at it and she's had some brilliant movies, but she was attached to either brilliant actors or directors.
She's even had some success in Star Wars, Rogue One was terrific, I liked Solo a lot, I thought it was a fun film to watch.
I honestly think that Mandalorian works because of JF and DF, I don't know how much of a hand she has it in. But her rumored interference in the last movie has become almost legendary, and honestly she had an insane director attached to the second movie. And the continuation of story line is really up to the Producer if the producer is going to use different directors.
I'm almost frighted that she's attached to two future Star Wars movies, one in 2023, and 2025, but we've seen the work that Taika does.
I was hoping that when her contract expired at the end of the year that Disney would show her the door.
How you can make Captain Crunch less then enthusiastic about Future Star Wars movies, either attach her name to it, or label it as a movie about Exogol.
__________________
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
