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Old 11-25-2020, 04:42 PM   #21
Derek Sutton
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Exactly. Every single vehicle purchase should be negotiated on out the door price including taxes.
It that was the case we might as well be speaking in Russian to most customers as the vast majority only care about the payment. They have no idea what $40,000 actually "is" and don't care. Half have no idea how idea how you even arrive at the payment, or care. More then half want to trade their car in but have no idea what they owe, how long they've had it or how long its even financed for. Interest? How does that work? They don't understand that they haven't even finished paying of their last vehicle they traded in yet never mind made a dent in the one they are currently driving and wanting to looking to trade in. Negative equity? What is that? It is depressingly sad how financial illiterate so many people are, many well educated for that matter too; Teachers, nurses and engineers.

It is a lot of work if you want to educate them and do things the right way, so just 4 square them with a payment that "looks" good. Who cares if it is actually bi weekly or monthly, hey it looks good!!! I have dealt with more then then a dozen people looking to get out of their car as they believed they were paying monthly when they were actually paying bi weekly and couldn't afford it. They other thing is how easy it is to flip someone who wants to be $500 a month to $250 bi weekly, oldest trick in the book (FYI $250 bi weekly is $542/ month).
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Old 11-25-2020, 06:06 PM   #22
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Yes a lot of people are stupid. No arguing that.
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Old 11-25-2020, 07:54 PM   #23
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Could someone please explain what 4-square is?
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Old 11-25-2020, 08:50 PM   #24
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Could someone please explain what 4-square is?
A good read to give you the basics. It’s a method car salesmen use to make you think you’re getting a deal but they’re really the ones coming out ahead.

https://axleaddict.com/auto-sales/Ho...m-To-Sell-Cars
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Old 11-25-2020, 08:50 PM   #25
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Could someone please explain what 4-square is?
Dealerships Rip You Off With The “Four-Square,” Here’s How To Beat It:


https://www.consumerreports.org/cons...ow-to-beat-it/
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Old 11-25-2020, 09:54 PM   #26
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Yeah I had to look that up.

So what I don't get is...

Everything initially drops in the buyer's favour, except round up monthly payments, to net the "dealer" an extra grand or two. That I get but the monthly still went (in that example) from 500 to 310 when the "target" was 300? Granted I read it at work, so only skimmed I guess.

The term length has to change somewhere but isn't shown, correct?

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Old 11-25-2020, 10:03 PM   #27
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Ah yeah nevermind. The link posted explained it better than the one I read.

So yeah the term changes, or at best, the downpayment.

Anywhoodles, +1 for Pylon. We've purchased 3 V-dubs from him. He won't 4-square you. And sometimes in a completely unrelated transaction, he'll buy your Ducati off you...

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Old 11-26-2020, 08:41 AM   #28
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Ah yeah nevermind. The link posted explained it better than the one I read.

So yeah the term changes, or at best, the downpayment.

Anywhoodles, +1 for Pylon. We've purchased 3 V-dubs from him. He won't 4-square you. And sometimes in a completely unrelated transaction, he'll buy your Ducati off you...

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He won't 4 square you but WHAT THE F$% where did my bike go??!!
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Old 11-26-2020, 11:15 AM   #29
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After reading through this I now realize I tried to be 4 squared on my last purchase. We paid for the full price up front though, so I guess we dodged around the monthly payment/down payment part of the 'negotiation'. I do remember the trade in offer being laughable (we sold it privately for triple the trade in offer) and told him to pound sand.

Makes me wonder if we could have negotiated better. We had done research and figured this was the best value based on all the available models at the time, so I guess we probably did okay, but the whole 4 square thing has me wondering now...
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Old 11-26-2020, 03:48 PM   #30
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As a car dealer, I love 4 square, because most my main competitors insult their customers intelligence by using it, and when they get here, and we just give them the straight goods without playing a shell game, they actually trust us, and very seamlessly buy the car. The cat is so out of the bag with 4 square, it's almost funny that some dealers still think it's relevant.

I had an RV dealer try and 4 square me in the summer..... let's just say, it didn't go well for him. Quoting me jacked up rates, thinking I didn't notice the padding in the deal, and hiding insurance in the finance quote. I've never seen a guy look so deflated when I handed him my business card on the way out the door and said "Call me if you can just take my cash offer on the trailer." He immediately knew, I knew, what he was up to. What he didn't know is I had budgeted a warranty, a generator, and bunch of other extras, he just wasn't gonna make a finance reserve off me.

As a dealer, I get it, we all want our customers to finance, as we make money on it. But sometimes, a person just has the cash, and you have to try and make a little extra money by selling a few extras on merit, not trickery.

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Old 11-26-2020, 03:49 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by DownhillGoat View Post
Ah yeah nevermind. The link posted explained it better than the one I read.

So yeah the term changes, or at best, the downpayment.

Anywhoodles, +1 for Pylon. We've purchased 3 V-dubs from him. He won't 4-square you. And sometimes in a completely unrelated transaction, he'll buy your Ducati off you...

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And she's ridden the things 4 times......

I've never bought 2 batteries for a vehicle that's travelled less than 100 kms in my life. Until I bought your battery eating Ducati.
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Old 11-27-2020, 01:18 PM   #32
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And she's ridden the things 4 times......

I've never bought 2 batteries for a vehicle that's travelled less than 100 kms in my life. Until I bought your battery eating Ducati.
I always had a maintainer hooked up.
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Old 11-27-2020, 03:57 PM   #33
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Jesus I totally got 4 squared today. I wasn't all that interested in doing a trade in on my car, and the four square and the you have to buy today pressure chased me out of the place, and I'm a long time loyal customer.


But when I saw him whipping out the form and then telling me that he had to talk to his manager I was like, I'm out.
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Old 11-27-2020, 09:34 PM   #34
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What brand? I remember the 4-square offer sheet back at Ford, but never saw it at either Chrysler store I was at, nor have I never been 4-squared at Chrysler, BMW, Mercedes, or AM.
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Old 11-27-2020, 09:57 PM   #35
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What brand? I remember the 4-square offer sheet back at Ford, but never saw it at either Chrysler store I was at, nor have I never been 4-squared at Chrysler, BMW, Mercedes, or AM.

They don't do it to everyone. If you seem somewhat competent they won't bother.
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Old 11-27-2020, 11:49 PM   #36
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What brand? I remember the 4-square offer sheet back at Ford, but never saw it at either Chrysler store I was at, nor have I never been 4-squared at Chrysler, BMW, Mercedes, or AM.
Hyundai dealership in the NE. The last time I bought there (My last two cars have been from the same place), there was nothing like the high pressure, you have to make a decision today on the spot like it was today.

Then when I kept saying no, suddenly the manager is coming out to say "Good bye", but it was to really try to pound on the close.

I'm pretty easy going, They had called me to come see them, this wasn't initiated by me in any way, and I was curious so I went, but I kept telling him, that I wasn't going to decide today, and after looking at it, I wasn't convinced that I wanted to do a trade at this time in this situation, but it was like, boom boom boom, let me do another pricing, let me put my best foot forward but this is a Black Friday thing.

Let me buy you a TV let me . . . , I kept saying, thanks, I've got to go, I'll get back to you, and boom he'd try another non subtle hammer close technique.

It was so weird, he was rolling out monthly payment options, and I kept waiting and waiting to see how long, all that stuff, and nothing about that. Its this much a month is that in your budget? I'm like not really, and you haven't told me how many months its over.

Then it happened. I'm sitting there and all of a sudden somebody hits a gong and all of the sales people stand up and give a standing ovation to I guess a client that agreed to buy a car. Honestly, I almost couldn't wait to leave at that point, the last thing I want is to say yes and have someone ring the sales gong and all the sales people yelling and hollering.

I get it, its black Friday, They want to create an energy etc for it, but for me, personally, it was suffocating.

On top of that, On Thursday the rep that called me, I kept saying, I'm happy with the car, no you need to come down, I'll make you a incredible deal and if it doesn't work out economically I'll tell you. So I agreed to go, then today just as I'm leaving another rep calls me, and runs through the same line, and I cut him off and said I'd already been called by another rep and I was heading down.
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Old 11-28-2020, 11:51 AM   #37
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So did you buy the car?
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Old 11-28-2020, 12:07 PM   #38
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Thats a pretty hard full-court press for a Hyundai.
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Old 11-28-2020, 12:38 PM   #39
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The only positive dealer experience I've had was at Valentine Volvo. Didn't go in expecting to buy a car (just wanted to test drive one), but almost walked out as an S60 owner. Super low pressure sales guy... he practically let the car sell itself
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Old 11-28-2020, 01:36 PM   #40
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Ugh.... "left over" warranty transfers whether you buy new or private. Certified pre owned offrers very little in most cases.

"Come in with an idea of what you want", says the guy who test drove 10 cars. The sales person typically doesn't give a fat rat what you do for a living, it just hepls with the small talk an investigating that you are on the right vehicle.

Written like someone who has bought one vehicle in their life....

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