[PGT] Chicago 5 - Calgary 3

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by nik-

Every player "loves it here" on the day they sign a new contract. A presser means nothing compared to what happens on the ice.

If the team continues to stagnate or regress over the life of the contract, he's gone as soon as he can.

I'm well aware ... I'm old I've seen many a quote and press conference. The Tkachuk one seemed different to me. Just a feeling and certainly nothing approaching a bankable fact.

And for sure many variables in play including how the next few years go.

But as I said, his press conference didn't come across as the "every player" variety.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Is there anything other than hope behind the belief Tkachuk wants to extend here more so than any other player?

Yes the reporting on his contract negotiations (or perhaps even quotes from Tkachuk/Treliving themselves) had both parties interested in doing something longer term. Can't recall if we heard that from Tkachuk's mouth directly or not, it would take too long to track down. It's old news but Tkachuk seemed genuinely excited to be drafted by the Flames, seemed like he was hoping we would take him out of the likely teams.

I dunno, I get the sense he likes the guys, likes the team, like playing in hockey mad Canada. He took a bunch of team staff and players to his house last time they were in St. Louis. I guess that's some hope mixed with a bit of fact.

Gaudreau meanwhile is getting interviewed and says his fav pastime is playing video games with his buddies back home and they can all chat on voice chat. I dunno I get the sense for friend reasons, for family reasons that he'd love to head back east at some point. Feels sometimes like his head and his heart are back east.

Both are a bit gut feel, we aren't in their heads so we can only guess from the interviews and things we've heard from them. But yeah I personally think the chances of retaining Tkachuk are considerably higher than the chances of retaining Gaudreau.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I'm well aware ... I'm old I've seen many a quote and press conference. The Tkachuk one seemed different to me. Just a feeling and certainly nothing approaching a bankable fact.

And for sure many variables in play including how the next few years go.

But as I said, his press conference didn't come across as the "every player" variety.

His press conference also came across as a guy having unfinished business with a team that kicked ass in the regular season, was disappointed with being bounced early, and has a window right now.

And the window is next few years, roughly the term of his contract.

And this season, well, isn’t going so hot

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Both are a bit gut feel, we aren't in their heads so we can only guess from the interviews and things we've heard from them. But yeah I personally think the chances of retaining Tkachuk are considerably higher than the chances of retaining Gaudreau.

Lots of guess work here. How about this? The Christmas photo, you had the following:
Gio, Brodie, Monahan, Gaudreau, Bennett, Lucic

Meanwhile, Tkachuk went to St. Louis. Are the Flames doomed?

Just kidding

[Ped]

The thing with Takchuk is, he may love it here now, but that doesn't mean he will when his contract is up. Teammates move on, the team's fortunes could worsen, anything could happen.

That doesn't mean trade him now, but it does mean that believing he is happy now doesn't automatically translate to he will be in the future.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by nik-

Every player "loves it here" on the day they sign a new contract. A presser means nothing compared to what happens on the ice.

If the team continues to stagnate or regress over the life of the contract, he's gone as soon as he can.

Exactly. I am willing to live in and love any city with all my heart if I am offered a 3 year $21MM USD contract. I’ll shout it from the rooftops and have daily press conferences and visit hospitals or whatever. Honestly whatever’s required actually, I’m in. Then when the deal is up, I’m willing to love and live in whatever new friend is willing to pay me $XMM USD contract...

Tkachuk especially has shown that he’s mostly interested in money. Same with Gaudreau and Monahan. Their play before and after payday should say it all. And that’s not even meant as some kind of big dig on these guys, their human, but I just don’t see the desire to win. What is motivating them now?

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Exactly. I am willing to live in and love any city with all my heart if I am offered a 3 year $21MM USD contract. I’ll shout it from the rooftops and have daily press conferences and visit hospitals or whatever. Honestly whatever’s required actually, I’m in. Then when the deal is up, I’m willing to love and live in whatever new friend is willing to pay me $XMM USD contract...

Tkachuk especially has shown that he’s mostly interested in money. Same with Gaudreau and Monahan. Their play before and after payday should say it all. And that’s not even meant as some kind of big dig on these guys, their human, but I just don’t see the desire to win. What is motivating them now?

I don't agree with the latter half of your post. I think Tkachuk wants to get paid, but I think he also really wants to have success, which is why it's very likely he leaves when he can. He can get paid well here or get paid well on a team with a legit chance. Why would you choose the former?

[Flames Draft Watcher]

He can get paid here and have a legit chance (or he can think he has a legit chance and that's all that matters.) While you are pessimistic about the Flames chances of competing during Tkachuk's career he may be quite optimistic about the Flames chances of competing during his career. Don't assume he thinks like you do.

[dino7c]

What teams have a "legit chance"

The last place team one year ago today won the cup

I know I know...one off, yet an 8th seed has won in recent years. Dallas lost to the Blues in game 7 overtime. Couple breaks and wild card teams could have easily been in the finals ect. Expansion team just went to the final. The league has changed and is wide open its pretty hard to pick your spot.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

He can get paid here and have a legit chance (or he can think he has a legit chance and that's all that matters.) While you are pessimistic about the Flames chances of competing during Tkachuk's career he may be quite optimistic about the Flames chances of competing during his career. Don't assume he thinks like you do.

Without Gaudreau and Giordano carrying them, the Flames’ chances of competing will be pretty much 0 until at least the time Tkachuk hits UFA. Why would he want to stick around any longer than that?

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by dino7c

What teams have a "legit chance"

The last place team one year ago today won the cup

I know I know...one off, yet an 8th seed has won in recent years. Dallas lost to the Blues in game 7 overtime. Couple breaks and wild card teams could have easily been in the finals ect. Expansion team just went to the final. The league has changed and is wide open its pretty hard to pick your spot.

All very true, but if you look at the history of Calgary's success in the playoffs, it tells a different story.

No UFA today is looking at Calgary as a place where theyu are going to likely taste playoff success.

it's likely why franchise's like Winnipeg and Columbus likely went all in in an attempt at winning some playoff rounds. To clear the stench of losing out of the mouths of their fans and the franchise itself.

It wouldn't hurt Calgary to win a round or two either, even if they don't go very far. It would certainly help the business of selling tickets.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

Without Gaudreau and Giordano carrying them, the Flames’ chances of competing will be pretty much 0 until at least the time Tkachuk hits UFA. Why would he want to stick around any longer than that?

Because he thinks he can carry them, Tkachuk isn't the type of guy who wants to go somewhere and be a depth player...he wants to be the guy or one of "the guys" IMO

Anyway things change fast. I still think the Flames are a divisional playoff team and look a lot better with another top six winger.


I'm not gonna assume the Flames are done for the season because Rittich blew a couple games

[Bingo]

Man the highs and lows on this site.

How many fanbases have honestly felt their team has been solid and on their way through this whole season? It's a tough league. 20 or so teams are in a dog fight every night (5 up and down that have separated).

I'm not a big fan of how this team is playing, I'm certainly not sold on the core in its current state, but you'd think the Flames were fighting with Detroit for last overall given the sentiment on this site after two rough games.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Because he thinks he can carry them, Tkachuk isn't the type of guy who wants to go somewhere and be a depth player...he wants to be the guy or one of "the guys" IMO

Anyway things change fast

Tkachuk is likely the only Flame worth talking about at that point. If I’m him, I’m looking at going UFA and putting a team with an established core over the top, not being another Iginla wasting away his career for a mismanaged dumpster fire.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by dino7c

What teams have a "legit chance"

The last place team one year ago today won the cup

I know I know...one off, yet an 8th seed has won in recent years. Dallas lost to the Blues in game 7 overtime. Couple breaks and wild card teams could have easily been in the finals ect. Expansion team just went to the final. The league has changed and is wide open its pretty hard to pick your spot.

What I would say, based on historical evidence, is that players are not necessarily great judges of which team has a "great shot". What I would say though is that they want to be somewhere that provides a combination of other "great players" and great market from lifestyle perspective. So, today, LV is probably the #1 destination, followed by some combination of TB, Pitt, WAS, StL, NY, maybe MIA and SJ. McDavid would be a draw, but the fact that it's Shelbyville and there is only one other player there, cancels it out. How will it look like in 2.5 years? Hard to say, but I think you can safely assume that LV and NYR will be part of the group, and the rest will depend on whether Crosby, Malkin and Ovechkin are still superstars, where McDavid is playing, and so on. Luckily, there is a cap, and these teams cannot take in all the tired, hungry and poor masses.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

Tkachuk is likely the only Flame worth talking about at that point. If I’m him, I’m looking at going UFA and putting a team with an established core over the top, not being another Iginla wasting away his career for a mismanaged dumpster fire.

How many teams missing just the one player have the cap space though?

Things can change in three years, but if this year is any indication, the only team that was an interesting/contending club this summer that could have taken on a star salary was Colorado.

Good teams have expensive players, and little cap space.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

Tkachuk is likely the only Flame worth talking about at that point. If I’m him, I’m looking at going UFA and putting a team with an established core over the top, not being another Iginla wasting away his career for a mismanaged dumpster fire.

The vast majority of the league is in the Flames situation...the very top teams don't often have 10M for a guy to put them over the top

Anyway there is no point in talking to some of you guys

Everything is terrible and will always be terrible

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

Without Gaudreau and Giordano carrying them, the Flames’ chances of competing will be pretty much 0 until at least the time Tkachuk hits UFA. Why would he want to stick around any longer than that?

Agree to disagree. We're not a two man team. If Gaudreau is traded there will be value coming back. The Flames are extremely deep in young defensemen that will replace Giordano in time.

Sky ain't falling for me. Sorry pessimists, we just don't have the same view of the Flames. The Flames are an inconsistent deep team that has a wealth of assets in terms of valuable NHL players including young valuable players with good contracts, draft picks and some prospects.

They can compete for years to come potentially. Why even be a fan if you think their chance is 0 after the rebuild? Seems ridiculous. That's not realism, that's pessimism. Why be pessimistic about something you're cheering for? Seems painful.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Anyway there is no point in talking to some of you guys

Everything is terrible and will always be terrible

donkey is apt with that one. Jeez. If the team makes you that negative about things then go find a different hobby.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

donkey is apt with that one. Jeez. If the team makes you that negative about things then go find a different hobby.

That’s exactly what I did, if you must know. And I’ve been much happier not allowing myself to get emotionally invested in a team I see as a rudderless ship heading into another extended span of mediocrity.