[PGT] Chicago 5 - Calgary 3

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Yeah sure, here's a few I found:

Here's me in 2013, you might find this relevant to the sam bennett thread I posted a couple of years ago:



Same thread, talking about how good the blues are at evaluating talent:

You can really stretch things to make your message board record work.

You went back six years. I was wondering if you knew last year was going to turn around.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Do you truly believe this organization, and this GM, is prepared to do that? I hope they have the guts. The teams that traded Hamilton and Hamonic to the Flames are better off for having done so it would seem. I’m just very worried they’re going to look at shortcuts.

Treliving doesn't seem like a coward to me.

It comes down to what he believes in my mind. If he thinks this core is worth building around he won't move them. If doesn't he won't.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by zamler

The team is about where it was 10 years ago. As for building on the current roster that's not going to be easy since we need a:
#1 center
#1 goalie
at least one sniper and some scoring depth.

Why hasn't it been done already? What is your expected timeline before this team wins a few playoff rounds (in one year).

What assets does the team have to get what I stated above?

Ten years ago the Flames had 11 guys on their roster 30 years or older, including three of their top four scorers. Had a goalie at 33 two years from retirement and had just completed the disastrous Ranger trade that set them back years.

They're not alike at all.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Since your record on this message board is excellent, can you pull out some St. Louis Blues are the model franchise quotes from a year ago and older for us?

Originally Posted by Bingo

You can really stretch things to make your message board record work.

You went back six years. I was wondering if you knew last year was going to turn around.

It's not me who is stretching here.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

It's not me who is stretching here.

Not stretching at all.

It's what I meant. I could have been more clear but it's certainly what I meant.

But yeah if you want to call that a win on your spreadsheet I think it counts! G for it!

[Flash Walken]

Always trying to turn things personal.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Ten years ago the Flames had 11 guys on their roster 30 years or older, including three of their top four scorers. Had a goalie at 33 two years from retirement and had just completed the disastrous Ranger trade that set them back years.

They're not alike at all.

10 seasons ago we lost in the first round, in tough to make the playoffs this season. I don't see how now we are so much better. You are probably going to argue we are in a better position to improve, maybe but I am talking about the current team.

Here's what I think, we need to start with a legit coach and go from there I keep saying this but for some reason people want to instead shuffle the lineup endlessly.

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Always trying to turn things personal.

Nothing new I expect it.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Always trying to turn things personal.

Yeah right.

That's my posting history.

You don't like me talking about your message board history after bringing it up yourself?

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by zamler

10 seasons ago we lost in the first round, in tough to make the playoffs this season. I don't see how now we are so much better. You are probably going to argue we are in a better position to improve, maybe but I am talking about the current team.

Here's what I think, we need to start with a legit coach and go from there I keep saying this but for some reason people want to instead shuffle the lineup endlessly.

How many friggin coaches does this core group get to go through before it becomes more of a narrative that the common denominator is,...them?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by zamler

10 seasons ago we lost in the first round, in tough to make the playoffs this season. I don't see how now we are so much better. You are probably going to argue we are in a better position to improve, maybe but I am talking about the current team.

Here's what I think, we need to start with a legit coach and go from there I keep saying this but for some reason people want to instead shuffle the lineup endlessly.

Nothing new I expect it.

I don't like this team either. I just don't have the rebuild - baby out with the bathwater - approach to fixing it.

But ten years ago they were an old team holding on for Iginla. This a relatively young team with lots of assets to go forward with.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I don't like this team either. I just don't have the rebuild - baby out with the bathwater - approach to fixing it.

But ten years ago they were an old team holding on for Iginla. This a relatively young team with lots of assets to go forward with.

Exactly.

The GM needs to make the right moves but its possible to retool this thing and get it back on track IMO.

They need to focus on the center icr position though.

STL was on the verge of a major tear down but turned their fortunes around by acquiring a very good prime aged C in back to back off seasons.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Yeah right.

That's my posting history.

You don't like me talking about your message board history after bringing it up yourself?

Uh...

I'm fine with you talking about it.

If you want to try to trap me by asking for examples of me talking about how good the blues are, and then I show it to you and you get embarrassed and accuse me of stretching when we can all clearly read what is transpiring here, we can talk about that too.

I haven't gotten personal with anyone here, but you seem quite interested in doing so. I'd like to avoid being banned again for talking about your previous post history so I'm going to stop here.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by transplant99

How many friggin coaches does this core group get to go through before it becomes more of a narrative that the common denominator is,...them?

Time for a complete rebuild then.

Also last 8 coaches

Darryl Sutter
Jim Playfair
Mike Keenan
Brent Sutter
Bob Hartley
Glen Gulutzan
Bill Peters
Geoff Ward (not enough data)

Still think coaching is not part of the problem?

Originally Posted by Bingo

I don't like this team either. I just don't have the rebuild - baby out with the bathwater - approach to fixing it.

But ten years ago they were an old team holding on for Iginla. This a relatively young team with lots of assets to go forward with.

Give me two example of impactful moves the team can and will make.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Uh...

I'm fine with you talking about it.

If you want to try to trap me by asking for examples of me talking about how good the blues are, and then I show it to you and you get embarrassed and accuse me of stretching when we can all clearly read what is transpiring here, we can talk about that too.

I haven't gotten personal with anyone here, but you seem quite interested in doing so. I'd like to avoid being banned again for talking about your previous post history so I'm going to stop here.

You're right I'll leave it.

But when you label/group and talk down to people that you disagree with I get super annoyed, and yeah this time I escalated.

Was never embarrassed by anything though, you got that part wrong. I did a piss poor job of framing it, but I meant you probably didn't see St. Louis coming last year.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by zamler

Time for a complete rebuild then.

Also last 8 coaches

Darryl Sutter
Jim Playfair
Mike Keenan
Brent Sutter
Bob Hartley
Glen Gulutzan
Bill Peters
Geoff Ward (not enough data)

Still think coaching is not part of the problem?

Give me two example of impactful moves the team can and will make.

We are talking about this core, not sure what anyone before Hartley has to with anything.

Gulutzan was obviously in over his head, so OK. We give the players a pass for those 2 years i guess.

Peters was looking like a fine hire IMO, then everything went off the rails with off ice stuff. I mean they really did look outstanding for most of last year with really mediocre goaltending. Slow start this season with a more stable goal situation screams to me that it was hardly coaching and a whole lot of players being not focused or intense enough. That seems to have returned after a brief hiatus.

So no, I am not going to blame coaching at this point when its the same guys over and over who are not executing the way they are being asked to and who were very successful doing so not even a calendar year ago.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by transplant99

So no, I am not going to blame coaching at this point when its the same guys over and over who are not executing the way they are being asked to and who were very successful doing so not even a calendar year ago.

I don't think our lineup is as bad as they are playing, but okay what would you do?

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by zamler

I don't think our lineup is as bad as they are playing, but okay what would you do?

As I said earlier...changes to the core group. What specifically would I do? No idea because I don't know who will be available nor what the desires of some of the current guys may be. A lot of that is not decided yet because teams havent missed the playoffs nor gotten beat in them at this point, so themselves they dont know where they may want to improve.

I guess one would have to identify who it is you (BT) feel you have to retain moving forward, then find out what others around the league think about them in regards to who you can get in return, then make the best decision you can from there. I have no doubt that Gaudreau would be heavily in the mix from the Flames standpoint though...something is very very wrong with him and it isnt physical. Looks like he is not having any fun playing the game at all..whether that is because of something to do with where he is playing or not, it sure doesnt seem like its fixable here. This is now coming up on a year.

And just to add, I'm not advocating keeping Ward necessarily, but jesus himself couldnt get this group to the heights they want to get to which is why changes to personnel has to occur.

One thing i think has to happen before all that however is deciding who, if either, of Hamonic or Brodie (neither guy is part of the core IMO)you will be able to bring back and deal the other guy. If neither, I think you deal them both. This team is not good enough with them, so losing them for nothing makes zero sense. Thats job 1 for BT at this point heading into this last 7 weeks before the TD.


So yeah unless some theoretical switch gets turned on, everyone starts pulling in the same direction, and they play like many of us believe they can....then a major shake up has to and will occur around the draft imo.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by transplant99

How many friggin coaches does this core group get to go through before it becomes more of a narrative that the common denominator is,...them?

I believe the issue is both in terms of coaching and the core. What needs to happen is that the Flames need to hire a well qualified coach with a vision for the future who can build a team into a winning franchise. Once they have found that guy he can evaluate the assets and figure out which pieces are good, which pieces he wants shipped out and which acquisitions he would like to see made. Let the coach build the team instead of trying to find someone to work with this current group. It is rebuild time for the Flames.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by transplant99

...

One thing i think has to happen before all that however is deciding who, if either, of Hamonic or Brodie (neither guy is part of the core IMO)you will be able to bring back and deal the other guy. If neither, I think you deal them both. This team is not good enough with them, so losing them for nothing makes zero sense. Thats job 1 for BT at this point heading into this last 7 weeks before the TD.

Too add on to this, it also depends what your target season to be back in the playoffs based on the plan. If you're aiming to be back there within two seasons, then keeping one of them is ideal since this is a retool then. But if this looking like it's take at least three seasons to be playoff contending once again, then it's a rebuild, and there's no point in keeping either of them around then since by the time their contract and/or peak play is coming to an end, is when the team might just be entering their playoff window.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

This is pretty accurate. Gaudreau has been playing poorly for nearly a year, to the point of hurting the team with his turnovers. But some of the supposed leaders of the team have been extremely disappointing and invisible for long stretches.

People often talk about building around Tkachuk but he goes invisible often and like Gaudreau, I suspect he is more likely to be an important piece on a good team than the guy. It just seems that there are not enough players on this team who know how to win over a prolonged period in the NHL.

Seems the Ward “bounce” was a team thankful to be rid of their ####### coach and we are back to where we were.

1. All players are inconsistent even the best. Expecting complete consistency from a team or a player is absurd
2. Hockey is a team game, you don't build around one player. It wouldn't be Tkachuk's team, he would just be one of the more important parts.
3. Tkachuk just turned 22. It's highly unlikely we've seen the best from him. He could easily continue to get better. Even if it's just his consistency that he improves on, he'll grow.

I think this boils down to us needing more heart, more competitiveness, more grit, more fire. It's been a need for a while. It's why we dealt Hamilton (he lacked it), why we acquired Lindholm and Lucic, and why the loss of Hathaway has stung. I had reached a frustration point with Hamilton when Treliving dealt him and I'm quickly reaching that point with Gaudreau's careless, scared play this year.

Tkachuk is definitely a guy you build around because his style of play is needed in the playoffs. I think it's why you keep Bennett too unless somebody wants to really blow your socks off with an offer. I think you have to have some gritty, physical players to succeed in the playoffs.