Calgary police begin mandatory alcohol screening at Checkstops

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

I believe he's referring to the "anti-police at all costs" crowd. There are a few in this thread.

Are there? Really?

This thread is extremely tame, and those in this thread who express a distrust of police are not radical Anarchist types firebombing G8 truncheon lines.

Christ being critical of police procedure and spending isn't out of the norm, especially as militarization continues.

[Scroopy Noopers]

I’m 100% not anti-police. Hell, I’m pro police.

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Are there? Really?

This thread is extremely tame, and those in this thread who express a distrust of police are not radical Anarchist types firebombing G8 truncheon lines.

Christ being critical of police procedure and spending isn't out of the norm, especially as militarization continues.

Lol. Do some research man. It is clear who those are.

Militarization. Perhaps the increase in use of force options is a response to particular incidents - Mayerthorpe, Columbine, Vegas, Bank of America, etc, all shaped how police do business, including training and equipment.

I guess my point with the above comment is that if you don't like the police, you will find a way to fault them - whether its spending, cameras, use of force, etc. And no amount of reason or explanation will change your bias.

That said, one thing I do wish was released was the number and description of calls for service everyday. Doesn't need to be specific, just a date, time, type of complaint, and a one line description. As the stolen car video above illustrates, I think the public would be very surprised to learn about how violent Calgary is.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

I believe he's referring to the "anti-police at all costs" crowd. There are a few in this thread.

I'm as anti-(Calgary) police as they come and I would never argue for them to have less cameras. CPS needs more, much much much more, transparency that much is clear. So again, the question needs to be asked about which groups have become anti-cameras all of a sudden?

With that said, I'm obviously pro-police. Good police forces should get the credit they deserve and are integral to the safety of society, that doesn't extend to all the police, individually or as a group, though.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

Lol. Do some research man. It is clear who those are.

Militarization. Perhaps the increase in use of force options is a response to particular incidents - Mayerthorpe, Columbine, Vegas, Bank of America, etc, all shaped how police do business, including training and equipment.

I guess my point with the above comment is that if you don't like the police, you will find a way to fault them - whether its spending, cameras, use of force, etc. And no amount of reason or explanation with change your bias.

Only 1 of the things noted happened in Canada. You cannot pretend Canada's crime culture is identical to the US, because it's not. Trying to model our police force after theirs is like killing a fly with a bazooka.

That said, one thing I do wish was released was the number and description of calls for service everyday. Doesn't need to be specific, just a date, time, type of complaint, and a one line description. As the stolen car video above illustrates,

CPS used to have an online map tracker of each call they responded to, but for some reason they crippled it last year and now it just shows generic stats and notices.

I think the public would be very surprised to learn about how violent Calgary is.

I think this view says more about you than it does about the actual state of things in Calgary. Sorry you live each day in such fear.

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Only 1 of the things noted happened in Canada. You cannot pretend Canada's crime culture is identical to the US, because it's not. Trying to model our police force after theirs is like killing a fly with a bazooka.

To think incidences of mass shootings won't happen here is pretty naive. Probably best to learn from the US then to poo-poo them.

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

I think this view says more about you than it does about the actual state of things in Calgary. Sorry you live each day in such fear.

Does it? Really? And you know because? As above, you are EXTREMELY naive.

Ya man. I'm in fear everyday. Sheesh.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

To think incidences of mass shootings won't happen here is pretty naive. Probably best to learn from the US then to poo-poo them.

What if learning from them indicated that increased militarization doesn't lead to a decrease in crime, nor an increase in officer safety but rather a decrease in public trust of police forces in general? I mean if we're going to learn we should pay attention to all the lessons.

[underGRADFlame]

I would encourage those who are blasting the CPS and their spending to do two things:

1. Begin attending Calgary Police Commission Meetings (Next Meeting). Ask questions from the people that have the actual answers. You don't believe the spending is justified, have a rational debate with the people that are in the know, but come with your A game because they will likely have their facts on point.

2. Attend your local district and request to go on a ride along with patrol Constables - begin to understand the realities of policing in Calgary. Go on two or three if you can, because one shift, while it may open your eyes, will not give you a full picture.

The sad fact is the reality of what actually happens on the streets of Calgary on a minute to minute, hour to hour, day to day basis is not accurately reflected in the media and is largely misunderstood by the public. The only way to start to understand it is to experience it for yourself. Talk to the members ask them about their thoughts on the new legislation( to go back to the original post), odds are they will be honest with you. Ask questions, respectfully, and start a dialogue instead of strictly acting on preconceived biases.

There are some bad cops out there, for sure, but to paint all cops as muscle head high school bullies is not only inaccurate, its also highly unfair to the members who work tirelessly to protect the vulnerable and hold the segment of society that do break the law and commit horrendous acts accountable for their actions.

If you've done those things and still think spending is out of control and all cops are bullies with badges then blast away, but i'm willing to bet there are very few critics in this thread that have even done one of the two.

[PsYcNeT]

The numbers don't play out that violent crime is getting worse in Calgary. If anything, it's terribly static. And that's not even considering that even fewer people are charged each year not per capita.

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

What if learning from them indicated that increased militarization doesn't lead to a decrease in crime, nor an increase in officer safety but rather a decrease in public trust of police forces in general? I mean if we're going to learn we should pay attention to all the lessons.

What if?

So the police buy C8's, a whole host of new non-lethal equipment and an armoured car to ensure they can adequately deal with any and all incidences they can be faced with and that erodes public trust? Not to mention all the training the members go through. I would suggest it only erodes the public's trust if you are already in that position. Just my opinion though.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

I'm very much an evidence based policy person.

Do the stats, types of crime, and need for mobile command support the need for a military style armoured vehicle?

If yes, then get it.

If not, then don't.

Does the mobile command centre need to look like its straight out of the Afgan War? Would it be better for the image of the CPS if it was in a more public pleasing livery?

I don't know.

But I do think those are fair questions, and I don't think "Trust me" is an adequate answer to justify spending public funds.

Again, the reasons may be perfectly valid, but not disclosing them isn't acceptable.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by Bent Wookie

What if?

So the police buy C8's, a whole host of new non-lethal equipment and an armoured car to ensure they can adequately deal with any and all incidences they can be faced with and that erodes public trust? Not to mention all the training the members go through. I would suggest it only erodes the public's trust if you are already in that position. Just my opinion though.

Yes. Militarization of police erodes public trust. It also increases civilian deaths, does nothing to decrease crime and makes being a police officer more dangerous. Of course those studies are typically done in the United States. But those are the guys you want us to learn from. So let's learn.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Rando

No thanks, never been much for an appeal to authority reply. Perhaps myself and other Calgarians should be privy to all that information.

How the heck was this vehicle needed once per day in Calgary?

When its not in use they should subsidize its cost by having an intern use it for SkiptheDishes deliveries.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by underGRADFlame

I would encourage those who are blasting the CPS and their spending to do two things:

1. Begin attending Calgary Police Commission Meetings (Next Meeting). Ask questions from the people that have the actual answers. You don't believe the spending is justified, have a rational debate with the people that are in the know, but come with your A game because they will likely have their facts on point.

2. Attend your local district and request to go on a ride along with patrol Constables - begin to understand the realities of policing in Calgary. Go on two or three if you can, because one shift, while it may open your eyes, will not give you a full picture.

The sad fact is the reality of what actually happens on the streets of Calgary on a minute to minute, hour to hour, day to day basis is not accurately reflected in the media and is largely misunderstood by the public. The only way to start to understand it is to experience it for yourself. Talk to the members ask them about their thoughts on the new legislation( to go back to the original post), odds are they will be honest with you. Ask questions, respectfully, and start a dialogue instead of strictly acting on preconceived biases.

There are some bad cops out there, for sure, but to paint all cops as muscle head high school bullies is not only inaccurate, its also highly unfair to the members who work tirelessly to protect the vulnerable and hold the segment of society that do break the law and commit horrendous acts accountable for their actions.

If you done those things and still think spending is out of control and all cops are bullies with badges then blast away, but i'm willing to bet there are very few critics in this thread that have even done one of the two.

it's not being anti-police or bashing cops just to questiong the need for the armoured vehicle, especially when it's not clear what they're using it for.

you'd think the overuse of the vehicle would build distrust in cops, especially if it's in situaitons where it's overkill.

If I had an outstanding warrent, then the tactical team showed up along with this vehicle, I think I'd be more likely to distrust the cops and fear for my safety than if a patrol car came to my door.

I read several articles stating the vehicle was deployed over 500 times last year.
fair to ask why, and what for.

If the police stated sat 450 of those deployments were for training, to be prepared for emergencies and to ensure staff could properly utilize the vehicle, it owuld have helped to have that context.

[underGRADFlame]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

Does the mobile command centre need to look like its straight out of the Afgan War? Would it be better for the image of the CPS if it was in a more public pleasing livery?

Just for clarity sake..

Mobile Command Vehicle


Armoured Rescue Vehicle

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

I am involved in emergency response, sometimes with the police. That vehicle is used for several purposes, including being used as a mobile operations centre. The vehicle is used frequently, not to justify its purpose, but to actually normalize its use and ensure that those that need it are aware of how it operates, especially as a mobile operations centre that may require the use of multiple agencies, including municipal, provincial and federal.

But they clearly already have a Mobile Command Unit. Is calling it a Mobile Operations Centre sufficiently different to justify a truck hauled straight out of Robocop-Era Detroit?

[underGRADFlame]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

it's not being anti-police or bashing cops just to questiong the need for the armoured vehicle, especially when it's not clear what they're using it for.

you'd think the overuse of the vehicle would build distrust in cops, especially if it's in situaitons where it's overkill.

If I had an outstanding warrent, then the tactical team showed up along with this vehicle, I think I'd be more likely to distrust the cops and fear for my safety than if a patrol car came to my door.

I read several articles stating the vehicle was deployed over 500 times last year.
fair to ask why, and what for.

If the police stated sat 450 of those deployments were for training, to be prepared for emergencies and to ensure staff could properly utilize the vehicle, it owuld have helped to have that context.

This right here speaks to the lack of understanding of how police conduct business. You are absolutely right, if the TAC team showed up with ARV to arrest you for an unlicensed cat warrant, your point is justified its over kill, but lets say your warrant was for an attempted murder with a firearm and you are known to have a gun. The response is measured to the level of risk.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by underGRADFlame

This right here speaks to the lack of understanding of how police conduct business. You are absolutely right, if the TAC team showed up with ARV to arrest you for an unlicensed cat warrant, your point is justified its over kill, but lets say your warrant was for an attempted murder with a firearm and you are known to have a gun. The response is measured to the level of risk.

Agreed. And if you're a drug dealer, you're way likely to do something dumb when faced with that vs a Ford Explorer.

But that's why I 100% agree with the people saying it would be nice to see more details on the calls. Could be an easy way to silence the critics if they showed why they need it instead of just going "trust us"

[Jimmy Stang]

I'm quite supportive of the police, but 500 calls per year caught my attention when the vehicle was acquired/justified as well. It is a fair question for the public to ask for details on those calls.

On the risk of sounding like the guy in a snowstorm that says "I didn't see a single snow plow on the roads today, therefore there are none", I would expect that a vehicle that is dispatched 1-2 times PER DAY would be seen a little more around town, in the media, on social media, etc.

I like what the CPS do on social media by showing some of the calls that keep them busy during Stampede, on regular nights, etc. as it helps provide insight into what they do (and it is a lot that we don't see). It is the complete opposite of "trust us, we need it, and if you question it you are anti-police".

[Locke]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Agreed. And if you're a drug dealer, you're way likely to do something dumb when faced with that vs a Ford Explorer.

But that's why I 100% agree with the people saying it would be nice to see more details on the calls. Could be an easy way to silence the critics if they showed why they need it instead of just going "trust us"

And this in conjunction with the new colour-scheme makes the Police seem decidedly less friendly.