[Trade] Elias Lindholm + Noah Hanifin to Flames for D. Hamilton, Micheal Ferland, & Adam Fox

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Wolfman

Gio has a tendency to make his defensive partner look good. Case in point TJ Brodie.

In fairness, TJ Brodie is also making TJ Brodie look good.

[dammage79]

Honestly, with Hamiltons stick length, he could/can become as great as Mik Lidstrom was with his stick, but no, he just half asses his way through stick positioning. Drove me nuts. Bad reads all the time in his end.

He got walked around a bunch of times too. I mean, a guy that size and mobility? No way in hades soupy molten hell should that happen.

It's like being a good basketball player whos way too short, and he's watching Big Country Reeves play basketball. "WHY WITH ALL THAT SIZE ARE YOU JUST A GIANT LOG!"

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by flamesfever

Hamilton usually had two moves in the defensive zone (1) pass to Gio, or (2) fire the puck up the boards, where the opposing team usually got the puck.

Yes. And that is what an average d-man does. Most d-men can't pass worth poop (see: yesterday's Hawks team. The Stars. The Oilers. The Flyers.) The Flames are extremely lucky that virtually all their d-men can make a pass that crosses the defensive blue line and the puck makes it to another Flames' player. Most teams would give their left nut just to have one outlet-passing d-man, because most don't. It's why you see so many teams have all three forwards lugging up the neutral zone together.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Honestly, with Hamiltons stick length, he could/can become as great as Mik Lidstrom was with his stick, but no, he just half asses his way through stick positioning. Drove me nuts. Bad reads all the time in his end.

He got walked around a bunch of times too. I mean, a guy that size and mobility? No way in hades soupy molten hell should that happen.

It's like being a good basketball player whos way too short, and he's watching Big Country Reeves play basketball. "WHY WITH ALL THAT SIZE ARE YOU JUST A GIANT LOG!"

I suspect Hamilton relied successfully on size, skating stride and reach for defence for his junior career. It probably came pretty easy for him. But against NHLers, it's way harder and requires more effort and thinking.

[Wolfman]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

In fairness, TJ Brodie is also making TJ Brodie look good.

In fairness, TJ Brodie didn't make TJ Brodie look good the last two years.

[oldschoolcalgary]

the definition of buyer's remorse

https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/...222982035.html

too bad... i liked Dougie and was hoping he'd do well outside of the media glare

the trade is turning into the equivalent of dumping Bre-X the night before news of the fraud starting to come out...

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

the definition of buyer's remorse

https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/...222982035.html

too bad... i liked Dougie and was hoping he'd do well outside of the media glare

the trade is turning into the equivalent of dumping Bre-X the night before news of the fraud starting to come out...

LOL....great analogy and bang on.

[FireGilbert]

I know it is a different sport but I cannot help but compare this trade to another time one of my favourite teams made a huge 2 for 2 swap which greatly improved their fortunes.

In 1990 the Blue Jays traded McGriff and Fernandez to the Padres for Alomar and Carter. At the time it was considered a pretty even old fashioned trade with McGriff the best player involved however the changes it allowed in the Jays line up, filling a hole in the outfield and making a space for Olerud, and the emergence of Alomar made it a big win. Just like how the Flames trade has ended up with Lindholm being the best piece filling a hole on 1st line RW and how moving Hamilton opened up a spot for Brodie on the top pair. It is nice to dream the Flames will also end up with two championships. Also the Jays eventually got Fernandez back, maybe Ferland will be a Flame again one day...

Yes the comparisons are just a coincidence and overall meaningless however you can conclude that in any sport being on the winning end of a multi player trade is great stepping stone to success.

[monkeyman]

I’ve been saying this for almost two years. GG’s system was making TJ, and the whole team look bad. It constrained the creativity and speed of the entire team, making them look slower and less skilled than they are/were. It also made them extremely predictable and easy to defend against.

[PugnaciousIntern]

Originally Posted by monkeyman

I’ve been saying this for almost two years. GG’s system was making TJ, and the whole team look bad. It constrained the creativity and speed of the entire team, making them look slower and less skilled than they are/were. It also made them extremely predictable and easy to defend against.

Out of curiosity, if Peters has been coaching last year, do you think Hamilton and Ferland would have enjoyed better or worse seasons?

To me, it seems like they were two of the few who benefited. After the 14-15 season, I really wanted the Flames to trade Wideman and sell high. We didn’t. This time, it feels like we traded high on Dougie.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by FireGilbert

I know it is a different sport but I cannot help but compare this trade to another time one of my favourite teams made a huge 2 for 2 swap which greatly improved their fortunes.

In 1990 the Blue Jays traded McGriff and Fernandez to the Padres for Alomar and Carter. At the time it was considered a pretty even old fashioned trade with McGriff the best player involved however the changes it allowed in the Jays line up, filling a hole in the outfield and making a space for Olerud, and the emergence of Alomar made it a big win. Just like how the Flames trade has ended up with Lindholm being the best piece filling a hole on 1st line RW and how moving Hamilton opened up a spot for Brodie on the top pair. It is nice to dream the Flames will also end up with two championships. Also the Jays eventually got Fernandez back, maybe Ferland will be a Flame again one day...

Yes the comparisons are just a coincidence and overall meaningless however you can conclude that in any sport being on the winning end of a multi player trade is great stepping stone to success.

Boy that's a great comparison that I never thought of. But I fully agree.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by FireGilbert

I know it is a different sport but I cannot help but compare this trade to another time one of my favourite teams made a huge 2 for 2 swap which greatly improved their fortunes.

In 1990 the Blue Jays traded McGriff and Fernandez to the Padres for Alomar and Carter. At the time it was considered a pretty even old fashioned trade with McGriff the best player involved however the changes it allowed in the Jays line up, filling a hole in the outfield and making a space for Olerud, and the emergence of Alomar made it a big win. Just like how the Flames trade has ended up with Lindholm being the best piece filling a hole on 1st line RW and how moving Hamilton opened up a spot for Brodie on the top pair. It is nice to dream the Flames will also end up with two championships. Also the Jays eventually got Fernandez back, maybe Ferland will be a Flame again one day...

Yes the comparisons are just a coincidence and overall meaningless however you can conclude that in any sport being on the winning end of a multi player trade is great stepping stone to success.

Uh oh, I'm getting a 90s Canadian sports team chubby.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

If you really delve into the numbers, Mike Smith was essentially the starter for the first half of December. So the 9 starts is actually pretty low. Personally, I don't see Smith getting a run like that again unless Rittich gets injured (knock on wood). In the final half of the season where the games are really important and the teams behind us are nipping at our heels, I foresee Peters playing his best goaltender which has been Rittich.

It remains to be seen, but given the pattern set so far through the first half I do not see the coach departing dramatically from what he has done this year. Rittich is clearly now the starter, and has worked his way from the #2 slot, to splitting starts in mid-November to mid-December, to the #1 slot in which he has been playing a 2:1 ratio. Suggesting he will have his workload increased for a third time in the season to a 3:1 ratio fits right in line with how the year has progressed. In his entire NHL head-coaching career Bill Peters has given his goalie +52-games only once.

So, 26 of 38 isn't a ratio I see happening. It'll probably be closer to 30ish for Rittich.

75% of the remaining games is 29—not 26, which will leave David Rittich with 51.

There's also no set rules for voting either, so I don't see anyone taking away votes because he didn't hit a certain number of games. Voters will likely recognize that he was also the back up to start the season and played his way to a starting position.

There are no set rules, but there are patterns and conventions from which NHL GMs—the selectors of the Vezina Trophy nominees—seldom deviate.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

the definition of buyer's remorse

https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/...222982035.html

too bad... i liked Dougie and was hoping he'd do well outside of the media glare

the trade is turning into the equivalent of dumping Bre-X the night before news of the fraud starting to come out...

Writers name is DeCock. Any relation to Pete LaCock of MLB fame?

Article is also a month old. I don’t watch much Hurricanes hockey but they have been playing better. Don’t know about Dougie though.

[LWcrowfoot]

MOD EDIT: Deleted immature comment.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

...Article is also a month old. I don’t watch much Hurricanes hockey but they have been playing better. Don’t know about Dougie though.

I also recall how difficult a time Hamilton had adjusting after the trade to Calgary. He was a disaster all the way through December, and did not start coming around until January. Some of that had to do with Giordano, but not all of it.

I bet Hamilton looks a lot better down the stretch, and if he stays in Carolina I would imagine he will have a good year next season.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

It remains to be seen, but given the pattern set so far through the first half I do not see the coach departing dramatically from what he has done this year. Rittich is clearly now the starter, and has worked his way from the #2 slot, to splitting starts in mid-November to mid-December, to the #1 slot in which he has been playing a 2:1 ratio. Suggesting he will have his workload increased for a third time in the season to a 3:1 ratio fits right in line with how the year has progressed. In his entire NHL head-coaching career Bill Peters has given his goalie +52-games only once.


75% of the remaining games is 29—not 26, which will leave David Rittich with 51.


There are no set rules, but there are patterns and conventions from which NHL GMs—the selectors of the Vezina Trophy nominees—seldom deviate.

Wait, Im confused, my assumption was a mid 50’s finish for games. If what you’re saying is that Rittich will get roughly 29 games which is sort of in line with what I thought, then that should put him exactly where I thought, mid 50’s.

29+25 = 54 games played

That’s not even including the future games that Mike Smith will start and could be pulled in, which based on his performance this season, could be very likely.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Wait, Im confused, my assumption was a mid 50’s finish for games. If what you’re saying is that Rittich will get roughly 29 games which is sort of in line with what I thought, then that should put him exactly where I thought, mid 50’s.

29+25 = 54 games played

That’s not even including the future games that Mike Smith will start and could be pulled in, which based on his performance this season, could be very likely.

29 starts. Rittich has been given 22 thus far. In any event, I still do not believe even with 55 games that Rittich gets much consideration for the Vezina Trophy from 31 NHL GMs.

[icecube]

Originally Posted by monkeyman

I’ve been saying this for almost two years. GG’s system was making TJ, and the whole team look bad. It constrained the creativity and speed of the entire team, making them look slower and less skilled than they are/were. It also made them extremely predictable and easy to defend against.

I wish we had literally tarred and feathered him before firing his ass. Worst coach of all time.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by icecube

I wish we had literally tarred and feathered him before firing his ass. Worst coach of all time.

* Just waiting for the hyperbole police.