Who is Backlund?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Brick

Backlund is a 3rd line two way center playing on the 2nd line because of faulty roster construction. He is not able to produce needed points when the 1st line goes quiet.
He lacks offensive creativity and finish.

Tkachuk needs a creative offensive center to play with going forward.

Matthew Tkachuk was third on the team in ES production. He is just fine playing with Backlund whose 45 points was only eight less than Tkachuk's 53.

[Brick]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Matthew Tkachuk was third on the team in ES production. He is just fine playing with Backlund whose 45 points was only eight less than Tkachuk's 53.

Tkachuk would be far more than just fine if he had a creative/offensive center to play with. They would be able to step up consistently when the 1st line goes quiet. Backlund has not been that guy when needed the most.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

The big weakness was Jankowski. So it's not a "Backlund isn't good enough" thing, it's a "Jankowski was bloody terrible 5v5" thing.

Please. If you think our 4th line center is what lost the Flames the opening round, you weren't paying attention. Jankowski was terrible, but so was the rest of the team, including Backlund. Jankowski was in his first playoffs as a NHL player and that is a huge step for players to take. Yes, he could have been better, but he ultimately didn't hurt the team as badly as suggested. Jankowski was only on the ice for two against even strength. Conversely, Backlund got scored on the most in the post-season. Our Selke candidate was nothing like a Selke candidate in the playoffs. #### happens. I look for improvement from the team this coming season, and for them to make noise in the playoffs, strictly because of how they got man-handled. The experience of humilation is a great motivator for athletes.

[TheScorpion]

I feel like if Backlund played on the top PP unit, he'd have gotten 60 points in each of the last two or three seasons and we wouldn't be having this conversation

[Enoch Root]

Backlund is in the top 40 in even strength points among Cs (and tied for 58 including PPP, despite not getting PP time).

He is also elite defensively (see Selke voting numbers above).

He isn't a 3rd line C. He is a really good middle 6 C who is more adept defensively than offensively. (And there is more than one way to structure a team.)

[SeanCharles]

Instead of debating over him being a 2nd or 3rd line center the more logical way to describe him is I think he is part of the solution here and one of 9 forwards I think are important pieces moving forward.

Gaudreau, Monahan, Tkahuck, Lindholm, Backlund, Bennett, Mangiapane, Ryan and Dube are all pieces I like in our starting 12.

Frolik is on his way out, Neal is a major disappointment, Czarnik is likely the 13th forward and Jankowski is really lacking at 5v5.

I don't know how it all shakes out but Backlund is a big part of this team and we are lucky to have him.

[Lanny_McDonald]

I'm always amazed at the crazy narratives being built around certain players. Bennett is a monster, especially 5-on-5. Jankowski is lacking, especially 5-on-5. Take away Jankowski's shorthanded play and he scores 9 goals and 24 points. Conversely, take away Bennett's powerplay points and he scores 9 goals and 21 points. When do outcomes actually matter? One guy plays a very effective and quiet low risk game, being +6 for the season, and the other guy plays a rough and tumble higher risk game, and being a team worse -6 for the season. Yet one guy is considered "lacking" and the other guy is a "go-to warrior" in the fan's eyes. I don't get it. Efficacy matters.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by New Era

I'm always amazed at the crazy narratives being built around certain players. Bennett is a monster, especially 5-on-5. Jankowski is lacking, especially 5-on-5. Take away Jankowski's shorthanded play and he scores 9 goals and 24 points. Conversely, take away Bennett's powerplay points and he scores 9 goals and 21 points. When do outcomes actually matter? One guy plays a very effective and quiet low risk game, being +6 for the season, and the other guy plays a rough and tumble higher risk game, and being a team worse -6 for the season. Yet one guy is considered "lacking" and the other guy is a "go-to warrior" in the fan's eyes. I don't get it. Efficacy matters.

So does watching them play

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

So does watching them play

Yet the outcomes just don't back it up. And ironically, so does the play if you're paying attention. Yeah, I love guys that run around and bump into other guys, but when they are watching the puck being picked out of their own net more than it is being picked out of the opposition's, that adds up. I'll take a guy that is a little less physical and better and puck recovery over a guy that runs around trying to blow people up and losing their check resulting in goals against. Not quite as spectacular or fun to watch, but leads to better outcomes.

[Enoch Root]

Opinions and perceptions are not facts. But your bias towards Bennett certainly is.

[Monahammer]

Bennett and jankowski were both bad last season, and I do think that their inability to drive offense as a line significantly contributed to our teams demise.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Backlund plays the hardest minutes of any Flames forward and is the only good centre in our middle 6.

He's a very good player and the least of our problems. I'd be surprised if he does not win the cup in his career, probably post Calgary though.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by New Era

Yet the outcomes just don't back it up.

The outcomes that depend on a stat (secondary assists) which is widely established as highly noisy and non-repeatable, you mean.

Because I am looking at a list of the 277 forwards who logged 800+ 5v5 minutes last year and Bennett is sitting at 107th while Jankowski sits at 203rd in primary points rate at 5v5.


Or perhaps you mean the "outcomes" based on a stat (+/-) which inherently favours penalty killers over power play players because of how it is tabulated.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Bennett and jankowski were both bad last season, and I do think that their inability to drive offense as a line significantly contributed to our teams demise.

No, but if they had been able to run a line it would have directly contributed to our success. They aren’t to blame for the top 2 lines failing to get it done.

[blender]

So Backlund is....




.... better than Bennett and Jankowski.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I feel like if Backlund played on the top PP unit, he'd have gotten 60 points in each of the last two or three seasons and we wouldn't be having this conversation

Personally I think he lacks the offensive skill to play on a good top pp unit. He's pretty good defensively but offensively he is run of the mill. I think there's lots of players that would put up 40+ ESP playing with Tkachuk.

He got 2 ppp all season playing 1:39 of pp time per game. Sure it wasn't on the top unit but jeez, that is bad. Good player but ideally a 3C on a contender.

[browna]

Originally Posted by Freeway

He's finished 4th, 13th and 8th in Selke voting each of the past three seasons. I'd say he's alright.

13th was very generous. He was near the very bottom of the league in plus minus for centers two years back (252nd), and a team worst, as a relative stat.

Also, in the stretch run that year, the last 2 calendar months of the season, as the Flames still had a hope, 11 points in 32 games. For a 2c, that's not enough.

He's a 3c, if you go on the assumption that the 2nd lne should have some scoring pop, and he is paid closer to a 2c @ $5.35m for another 5 years.

[Kasi]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Personally I think he lacks the offensive skill to play on a good top pp unit. He's pretty good defensively but offensively he is run of the mill. I think there's lots of players that would put up 40+ ESP playing with Tkachuk.

He got 2 ppp all season playing 1:39 of pp time per game. Sure it wasn't on the top unit but jeez, that is bad. Good player but ideally a 3C on a contender.

He put the same number of points with Frolik and Bennett before Tkachuk arrived. This idea of Backlund being propped up by Matthew just isn’t supported by the facts of Backlunds career. Backlund himself has been shown to give players a bump much more than Tkachuk has.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Personally I think he lacks the offensive skill to play on a good top pp unit. He's pretty good defensively but offensively he is run of the mill. I think there's lots of players that would put up 40+ ESP playing with Tkachuk.

He got 2 ppp all season playing 1:39 of pp time per game. Sure it wasn't on the top unit but jeez, that is bad. Good player but ideally a 3C on a contender.

Two seasons ago, Backlund lead a team with Gaudreau, Monahan, Versteeg, Tkachuk, Giordano, Hamilton etc in 5v4 points and primary points. This was instrumental in our PP finishing top ten as he was on our second unit.

Last season wasn't his best on the PP, but it was an outlier, not a lack of PP skill.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

The outcomes that depend on a stat (secondary assists) which is widely established as highly noisy and non-repeatable, you mean.

Because I am looking at a list of the 277 forwards who logged 800+ 5v5 minutes last year and Bennett is sitting at 107th while Jankowski sits at 203rd in primary points rate at 5v5.


Or perhaps you mean the "outcomes" based on a stat (+/-) which inherently favours penalty killers over power play players because of how it is tabulated.

Questionable stats seem questionable to me. Is that with his right skate with the blue lace and his left with the red lace, or vice versa? According to the NHL Jankowski scores more points. Scores more goals. Scores more primary assists. Is on the ice for more goals than he is against, but somehow Bennett is ahead in this one stat. Very interesting. Stats will tell you what you want them to when you massage the data enough. I mean, according to this "stat" Bennett is ahead of the likes of Tarasenko, Kane, Aho, Marchessault, Parise, Kadri, Schenn and so on. Uh, sure. Not buying it. The legend of Sam Bennett continues to grow.