2023 Toronto Blue Jays Season Thread

[KelVarnsen]

Have the players quit on Schneider?

[browna]

Originally Posted by KelVarnsen

Have the players quit on Schneider?

Nah, theyve run into probably teams that are top 5 in the league, all in their division, these last 2 weeks and their ace from last year is putrid, and slowly confidence is eroding.

I still think the need a club house leader to give them some swagger and confidence while also giving them a kick in the butt. The previous Jays playof teams had that element (Donaldson, Bautista, Burhle, Price Martin) and of course Gibby had his approach.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by KelVarnsen

Have the players quit on Schneider?

It’s weird - most of them came up with him and I thought he was the perfect fit

But something is off for sure

[Mathgod]

I'm starting to think Montoyo wasn't the problem.

[browna]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

I'm starting to think Montoyo wasn't the problem.

Well, Schneider is also a learning first time manager, but who wasn’t as soft as Montoyo, knew the players, but also not a totally old school guy either.

If they remove him at any point because the team isn’t responding to him, it will revert and go old school, as undoubtedly Mattingly will take charge.

[flambers]

If the slide continues, Jays are going to be totally out of it before the All Star break.

At this stage, they need to make a couple roster changes....

[bluejays]

One player I’ve said for ages the Jays should be targeting is Joe Kelly. I don’t know what teammates think of him but the White Sox aren’t doing anything notable, and he’s got an attitude. While he’s not the top of the list in what they need, I think he could help. Then there’s also this:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CsY-l...RlODBiNWFlZA==

[flambers]

I would think, Jays will need to move Bichette to second, and trade for a short stop.

This might aggravate Bichette, however he does not have the defensive ability to play SS.

[Jason14h]

According to this Bichette hasnt actually been bad

https://fieldingbible.com/DRSLeaderboard

In fact it’s our 2 second baseman that have been horrid

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

According to this Bichette hasnt actually been bad

https://fieldingbible.com/DRSLeaderboard

In fact it’s our 2 second baseman that have been horrid

Yeah. After I posted how bad was and somebody responded he hasn’t been that bad, I looked up the statistics and statistically he really hasn’t been compared to last year. I don’t know if it’s my personal bias but I don’t think realistically he’s got better since last year defensively. And those times where he’s thrown the ball really stick out to me. I don’t know what the answer is aside from waiting to the off-season to sign a big name there and move him over.

[flambers]

Personally I view Bichette defense as below average for a short stop,

[Jiri Hrdina]

I think part of the problem is that shortstop errors are glaring and can look really. But I think that's why you have to look at the stats, as there is a lot of room for bias in our perceptions.
On the whole, Bichette is amongst the least of the team's worries.
I think the biggest problem is their ace is now not even pitching at MLB starting pitcher caliber.

[Roof-Daddy]

It can't be overstated how much Manoahs fall has completely torn a huge massive hole in this teams rotation. For the last two seasons he was guaranteed 6-7 innings every 5th game and the Jays would have a chance to win. 6.1 fWAR the last season and a half and he's currently sitting -0.3 fWAR and can barely get 3 innings in.

Just kills the bullpen and demoralizes the team.

[Roof-Daddy]

The Jays pitching drafting and development has been total ass though. It's inexcusable that this many years into Shapiro and Atkins tenure that they don't have ANY decent starters to call up to replace Manoah right now.

They traded for Berrios, and signed Gausman, Bassit and Kikuchi as free agents. Ryu was also a free agent.

The only homegrown starter they have is Manoah and he sucks now. That is really bad. 7-8 years in and the only starter they developed was Manoah and they don't have a single solid starting pitcher in AAA either???

Yikes

[Roof-Daddy]

These are the guys that were supposed to have had a big hand in Clevelands pitching pipe line that had guys like Kluber, Carrasco, Bauer, Clevinger, Bieber and others??

Either they got lucky or someone else in that org was responsible for that pipeline.

[flames_fan_down_under]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

The Jays pitching drafting and development has been total ass though. It's inexcusable that this many years into Shapiro and Atkins tenure that they don't have ANY decent starters to call up to replace Manoah right now.

They traded for Berrios, and signed Gausman, Bassit and Kikuchi as free agents. Ryu was also a free agent.

The only homegrown starter they have is Manoah and he sucks now. That is really bad. 7-8 years in and the only starter they developed was Manoah and they don't have a single solid starting pitcher in AAA either???

Yikes

The report card on position players isn't strong either.

Vlad, as mentioned, was an Anthopoulos signing.

Jansen, also an Anthopoulos draft pick.

Atkins apparently had to be strongly convinced to draft Bo, Atkins did not want high school position players.

Espinal: Not a Jays draft pick but did come up through AA and AAA.

Biggio: An Atkins pick, and my candidate for someone who should be DFAd, the only thing keeping him around is he is a left handed bat.

Kirk: Signed and developed by Atkins.

Other than that we drafted a bunch of middle infield guys that have had little major league impact: Austin Martin, Warmouth, Kevin Smith, Groshans. There is little to hang our hats on in regards to position players drafted by Atkins and Shapiro.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by flames_fan_down_under

The report card on position players isn't strong either.

Vlad, as mentioned, was an Anthopoulos signing.

Jansen, also an Anthopoulos draft pick.

Atkins apparently had to be strongly convinced to draft Bo, Atkins did not want high school position players.

Espinal: Not a Jays draft pick but did come up through AA and AAA.

Biggio: An Atkins pick, and my candidate for someone who should be DFAd, the only thing keeping him around is he is a left handed bat.

Kirk: Signed and developed by Atkins.

Other than that we drafted a bunch of middle infield guys that have had little major league impact: Austin Martin, Warmouth, Kevin Smith, Groshans. There is little to hang our hats on in regards to position players drafted by Atkins and Shapiro.

Martin and Groshans were very well regarded at the time. I know for any prospect there isn’t a surety and we’ll never know if the jays kept them if things would have turned out differently. But sadly they didn’t maximize their return at the time. Of course we’ll never know how those discussions transpired and the competition at the time for Varsho or Barrios but giving away two very well rated prospects at the time was a severely heavy price. I personally think it set a standard that Atkins will deal good prospects in a trade and that set up the high asking for Varsho as well. I was screaming to the high heavens when these deals went down but so many thought otherwise that they were good and not a high price. Look now what we have to work with. I don’t know how we get better now when the cupboards are empty.

[Roof-Daddy]

Other than Moreno now, none of the prospects the Jays traded for MLB talent have ever really gone on to do anything of note at the MLB level.

I'm not entirely sure if that's a good thing, or a bad thing.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Other than Moreno now, none of the prospects the Jays traded for MLB talent have ever really gone on to do anything of note at the MLB level.

I'm not entirely sure if that's a good thing, or a bad thing.

To me it’s a nothing. What I know is at the time they were all highly touted. Some projecting slightly lower than their peaks, but still highly touted. What happens one way or another shouldn’t matter too much.

[flames_fan_down_under]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Other than Moreno now, none of the prospects the Jays traded for MLB talent have ever really gone on to do anything of note at the MLB level.

I'm not entirely sure if that's a good thing, or a bad thing.

Well it can definitely be both. The Jays front office selling high on assets for MLB ready players is good for the near term success of the team, and it also means their internal evaluations of players within their system seem to be strong, ie. Martin has flaws we will never get more value out of him than when they traded him for Berrios. The fact that they're not drafting impact players is not good for the long term strength of the team though.