Camera recommendations

[btimbit]

Figured we probably have some photography buffs here that can point me in the right direction. I have a big Europe trip planned and am thinking I'm going to want to take a ton of pictures, but looking to see if there are any recommendations for a decent camera. I don't need anything crazy but curious if there's anything out there in between a good camera phone and a
$1000+ DSLR. Does such a middle market even exist anymore or have phones closed that gap? Would used perhaps be a smart way to go?

Total camera noob, haven't even owned one since some crappy point and shoot 15 years ago. Budget is flexible, wouldn't even know what a good price would be here. Few hundred maybe?

Did some googling but answers were pretty vague and/or your typical clickbait ai generated articles that just aren't useful

Edit: If it makes a difference, probably a good mix of indoor and outdoor use

[Fuzz]

Yes, compact mirrorless are probably the way to go for you, though may be a touch on the high end of what you want to spend? I've always shot SLR/DSLR but will be getting a Nikon Z50(?) whatever the replacement is when they release a new model. That one is a few years old. They can swap lenses and take great quality pictures in smaller form factor. Really, your best bet is to go into The Camera Store and talk it throguh with them, they are great and the prices are very competitive.

[btimbit]

Oh awesome, I'm in that area all the time and didn't even know it was there. I'll try and pop in one of these days

[PepsiFree]

What kind of phone do you have? How is the camera?

Honestly, unless you’re shooting on film or your intention is to blow the images up for print, you might be better off buying a new phone than a new camera.

Now, I say this knowing there are camera nerds that may gasp or scoff at the thought of it, but I have also owned multiple DSLRs and two mirrorless cameras. There are some pretty neat cameras out there that are just fun to have, but if you’re shooting digital and you just want some nice photos to keep, you might get a lot more bang for your buck buy just upgrading your phone.

I truly think cameras are a waste of money unless you’re a professional or you’re an aspiring photographer who wants to get into prints. Some people will tell you how much better they are than phone cameras, but 95% of people are not going to notice the difference and are not going to care. The best photographers can shoot with anything.

[Fuzz]

I find the biggest difference is speed of taking a photo, and consistency of results. When I'm traveling it is so much quicker to reach into my shoulder bag, take a quick snap and put it back(and know I've probably gotten a good result) than it is fumbling with a phone. My wife is usually still trying to compose a shot on her phone by the time mine is back in my bag and I'm ready to keep moving. Plus, I enjoy it. Some people get satisfaction out of using a proper camera. But to really get the good output you do need to spend time in Lightroom or some other package. So enjoying that part of it is important, too. I get some people hate it. But it really is a hobby for most like anything else, and I understand most people are better with phones, but for some of us that's like driving an auto when a stick is more fun.

[btimbit]

That's definitely the bigger part of my question, trying to figure out if the juice is worth the squeeze here. I have a Pixel 7, the camera is pretty good, but in some light and especially if there's any distance or god forbid, zoom, at full size even my bad eye for such a thing can notice some poor quality. There are some places and museums that I've been wanting to go to my whole life, (Not art museums, photos are definitely allowed) I might actually want some of these shots blown up or printed someday, or at the very least used as a big pc wallpaper, haha.

My thinking is if there were something out there that's even just 15-20% better than my camera phone, and it's just a few hundred dollars or even $500 ish, that might be worth it. So getting an idea of the price point we'd be talking about is a big part of my decision here. I don't see myself getting into it as a hobby, I just want some good quality to keep the memories. Definitely want more out of it than just pictures that look good on a phone screen or on social media

[Fuzz]

Ya, if that's the case I'm not sure the $500 range is going to get you a big improvement, but the Camera Store can help on that, as I haven't looked in that range. What I was talking about is more in the $1000-$1500 range for entry.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Ya, if that's the case I'm not sure the $500 range is going to get you a big improvement, but the Camera Store can help on that, as I haven't looked in that range. What I was talking about is more in the $1000-$1500 range for entry.

Yeah I'll definitely be checking them out

How about the used market? Do you think that'd be worth looking at?

[Fuzz]

For sure, people love to buy these things and have them sit in the closet after very little use.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

For sure, people love to buy these things and have them sit in the closet after very little use.

Yup, that'll be me, lol

[PepsiFree]

Used can be a good option but things often hold their value pretty well.

And to Fuzz’s point, pulling out a like Fuji and taking a few snaps definitely feels more interesting than using the iPhone. But against Fuzz’s point, the camera button is right on the home screen and the viewfinder is the entire screen, so it takes me about 1 second to line up a great shot when I want one, and I don’t have to fumble around with a camera bag or hang it around my neck.

It’s definitely a hobbyist kind of thing. What I would say, personally, is that if you want the options of zoom, shooting at night or in darker rooms, shooting portrait, etc. and your budget is $500-$1500, upgrade your phone. You are not going to get a camera that “does it all” for that price, at a quality substantially better than your phone (which has the added benefit of not just being something you use for taking photos).

Once you get into DSLR, it’s really the lenses that make the difference and make the photos, and those are $500 to a few thousand by themselves. So you have to buy the body, and then the lenses, and then you have to deal with switching lenses around or going with a lens that can hit a few different distances, which generally aren’t as good imo.

You can get something nice like a Sony RX100 if you want zoom, but that’s coming in a little over $1500, and I really feel at that point you have to start considering how seriously you want to take it and how much time you want to spend with those photos.

[photon]

Back when I used a separate camera I had a Sony mirrorless and it was great... there's current models that start below $1000 I believe. Or the Canon EOS M200 I've heard is pretty good.

But as phone cameras got much better I stopped using my camera.

I agree, I'd rather put that money into a higher end phone than a camera unless I knew I was going to be using the camera in ways I couldn't use the phone.

That said there's a Sony a6000 kit on Facebook for $1300 which includes the camera, a 16-50mm kit lens, a 55-210mm zoom, and a 30mm F1.4 which is a pretty good camera hobby starter kit.

[btimbit]

Man even that's tricky, just tried googling what phones have a better camera than the one I have and pretty much every list had my phone in the top 3

I'll probably just suck it up and stick with the phone. But who knows, I am very good at getting super into an expensive hobbies, for about a year.

[photon]

We share a super power!

[opendoor]

I don't know, when I look at old shots from my (now) 15-year old DSLR, I'm still shocked sometimes how much better they look than my iPhone photos do. It's just basically impossible for a phone camera to compete with something with a larger sensor and lenses. Phone software can certainly help, but sometimes that just makes it look worse by over sharpening/over smoothing or killing the dynamic range just to make everything more visible.

That said, I haven't used my DSLR in years. I've considered getting a used Fujifilm, but haven't taken the plunge yet.

You could try for a sort of middle ground, either using a different camera app that allows more control, or even just shooting in RAW + JPEG in the default app. That can allow you to better recover highlights and shadows without going too heavy on HDR if you're shooting in more difficult lighting situations. A lot of times (particularly in good light) messing around with the RAW wouldn't be worth the effort, but for important shots, sometimes the extra control afterwards can produce a better result.

[ah123]

Here is my $0.02 on this topic. I am avid photographer, but for my last trip decided I would “make do” with my iPhone 14 Pro (which has a very good camera). I don’t necessarily regret the decision, but the quality of the pictures is definitely not the same, even when looking at it on a regular monitor (not iPhone screen). The other thing I noticed, is that it is much easier to compose a picture using a viewfinder rather than an iPhone screen, especially when it is very bright outside


My suggestion is to pick up something small (Fuji XV series, Nikon Z50 type or similar). If you decide to go that route, the CameraStore is a very good place to get help. One word of caution, know your budget before you walk in…blowing budget on camera gear is very easy…I know that from experience

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Figured we probably have some photography buffs here that can point me in the right direction. I have a big Europe trip planned and am thinking I'm going to want to take a ton of pictures, but looking to see if there are any recommendations for a decent camera. I don't need anything crazy but curious if there's anything out there in between a good camera phone and a
$1000+ DSLR. Does such a middle market even exist anymore or have phones closed that gap? Would used perhaps be a smart way to go?

Total camera noob, haven't even owned one since some crappy point and shoot 15 years ago. Budget is flexible, wouldn't even know what a good price would be here. Few hundred maybe?

I'm a fan of the Micro Four-Thirds platform, the sensors are much larger than what you would find on a phone, and the lenses are much smaller than what you would find on a full frame mirrorless or dlsr. They also have plenty of good adaptors to fit larger format lenses you might have, either from vintage buys or APS-C or Full Frame.

M43 are mirrorless which makes them more compact than a DLSR too. On the cons side, they're probably inferior to a full frame camera for something like astrophotography, and they don't have all the built-in processing of a modern smart-phone so to do something like image-stacking for denoise you have to manually shoot multiple shots and then process them in post.

As for exactly which model on that platform, it might depend on requirements like size and features, but Olympus and Panasonic are the two main brands that make them. I personally have

- an Olympus EPL-7 camera body. It's not quite equipped for great video but it's solid for stills
- a VF-2 Electronic Viewfinder
- A Panasonic 25mm f/1.7 (the 20mm f/1.7 is a better AND more compact lens, but a little pricier and the focal length (M43 focal lengths are equivalent to half of a full frame focal length) might be a little bit wide for portraits )
- An SLR Magic 8mm f/4 (this is a pure manual focus ultrawide lens, for landscapes)
- A Panasonic Leica 15mm f/1.7 (this is my best and most versatile lens, but it's also very expensive)
- An Olympus 42mm-150mm zoom lens (this is 84 to 300mm equilivent so it doesn't have a ton of regular use cases, but it was cheap haha)

Perhaps the best all-purpose zoom lens option is the Panasonic 12-32mm... I just have a bunch of primes that already satisfy that range.

If you're a little bit more flexible on your budget, you probably want to get a Panasonic GH5-S or Black Magic 4K - these are video-oriented cameras on the M43 platform that are still great for photography.

Alternatively, if M43 doesn't seem like a good option, you could go a little bit bigger and look into the APS-C platform. Sony has some good offerings, I just can't tell you a ton about them)

[PepsiFree]

I think the thing people don’t always realize when they’re getting into photography as a hobby is how little the camera matters at first. Like a lot of things, the thought process seems to be “I want to take good photographs, so I need a good camera.” When really, you just need a camera and it does not have to be any good.

You have to sort of develop your eye first, understand framing/lighting/aperture/bokeh/etc and what makes a picture “good” to you, and then figure out what look you want to achieve, and then the camera or lenses you need to achieve that will become a lot more obvious.

I feel like a good analogy is being a “car guy” in a way. You say, “well, I know how to drive, but I want to have fun driving and drive really well, what car should I get?” You might get 100 different answers about the cars people enjoy, but you can achieve the “drive really well” portion in any car. An F1 driver doesn’t need an F1 car to out drive you, they can likely do it in a KIA Rio. Just like a good photographer is going to take better pictures on a phone than you will with a DSLR. It’s not until you really understand what “fun” means to you (and in the driving analogy, that could be off the line speed, maneuverability, off road capability, etc) that you’ll really be able to hone in on what you need to get there.

You could say “I want to drive well and have fun” and go buy a Tesla when what you actually needed was a Mustang or a TRD 4Runner or a straight up race car you want to take to a track. You don’t really know what you need until you understand what you’re missing, and it’s a lot easier to figure out the limitations of the KIA that bother you first than spending money on a Tesla and realizing those limitations are still there.

[DoubleF]

I haven't dabbled with this stuff since a few years before the pandemic. I've always loved Sony. Not because I'm a fanboy, but because they were always just exactly what I wanted at the price point I wanted. But I think it might be fun to do again. People keep thinking phones have caught up, but when you look at the pics later on a computer vs a small portable screen size, it's really not close IMO (assuming half decent ability to capture a shot on auto). The 2-3x bigger sensor size helps to make a huge difference when you zoom in IMO.

TL;DR - Stuff that was produced around 2014-2016 is probably the sweet spot in terms of value, price and incremental increase in quality to your phone. If price isn't an issue would recommend a Vlog mirrorless for your needs. Designed to be portable, great quality pics/vids, has the right additional features and probably easier to re-sell to people who are amateurs.


I highly recommend buying used if you know it's been treated well, but also consider going to places like Bestbuy and poke around the open box stuff.

https://www.bestbuy.ca/en-ca/product...s-kit/14686183

This one is a bit bigger that what I personally prefer and more than/all you need but the open box discount is pretty substantial. IMO I wouldn't spent more than $400-800 on a set up to play with. Re-sell the moment you get bored and it'll only cost you that <$500 you want to spend.


IMO for a point and shoot, I still think it's probably the RX100 Mark 4 or later (I think it's at 7 or 8 now). Don't get a Mark 1 though. The Mark 2 was a huge leap vs the Mark 1 and addressed a hardware issue the Mark 1 had. The RX100 Mark 2 and 3 cameras I find are still shooting slightly better pics from almost a decade ago than what I get now on a modern phone camera. The phones are catching up on those though. I think we paid around $500-600 on the one we got my in-laws. We got around 3-4 years on it so it was worth it as a present I guess. It started collecting dust and then it got destroyed when their basement flooded. Mark 4 or 5 I think would be the sweet spot for you. Looking it up, mark 4 is when dual recording was first introduced where you can take pics while recording video. I love this feature and I use it in most cases on my phone. You can make sure you capture something (video + pics) for things that are hard to capture and you get very good (not highest quality) shots rather than old school trying to see if you could extrapolate the occasional frame from a video. I think 5 introduced the "vlog" features of a flip up/or view finder etc.

In the same vein, I had a Sony NEX-5 mirrorless camera as well relatively soon after it was released. I think it was either that or the Nikon V series. That's a decade ago? Damn. All in I think I spent $900-1100 for the camera plus accessories and extra pancake lens. I got a solid 5-6 years out of it and I think it honestly still does better than my current phone camera in all categories other than autofocus. I primarily used the 18-55 lens on it. Getting into a good habit/routine for whipping it out and snapping a few shots as fast as you might do with a phone takes a little time, but once you do, it feels great. As of today, the only thing it's probably lacking IMO is dual recording, faster/better auto focus and perhaps improved megapixels. You'll easily get all of that and more on many mirrorless 2-3 generations (released 2013-2016 ish).

I abused the #### out of that camera and my now wife literally dropped it half a dozen times and some random plastic bits popped out here and there, smashed lens covers (replaced) and whatnot. I was lucky it seems to have 9 lives, and it still works. I literally did not use a camera bag. Just an inner pocket in a well designed backpack/messenger bag. Profile wise, you need something with a good accessible pocket that's probably just around the size of a suit jacket pocket. Easy reach, unzip, wrap the strap around wrist, lens cap + flick power button simultaneously and square up. I hated having an extra camera bag.

Size wise with the 18-55 lens it came with, even though on its own it probably takes 4-5 times more space than a phone, it's surprisingly small in profile. It only sticks out a wee bit more than your knuckle when you take pics and it's so much more natural to hold when trying to get a still shot. The natural balance of a camera helps a ton with taking great pics and utilizing angles correctly vs some of those ultra ####ty angled people take pics at with weirdly tilted phones. Tilting the viewfinder screen and shooting a straight pic is also nice vs always being stuck with a 90 degree fixed position with phone cameras which would require I kneel for some of those shots.

Although it has been collecting dust, every year I keep thinking about pulling it out and using it again. When traveling it wasn't horribly oversized. The other thing I loved was using a tripod and just doing great pics myself vs some of the awful stuff I get from asking strangers (plus I wouldn't really ask just anyone to take a pic with my phone in Europe). I also like how I can back up my cards daily or swap out the memory cards into a different bag before asking a rando for help for a few pics in a "just in case someone steals my camera scenario".

For mirrorless sized camera and bigger though, the accessories you need at times sometimes 1/3 to 2/3 the cost of what I paid for my cameras at around $150-500. Bags, add on flashes, remotes, tripods, cloth bags, padded bags, covers, extra lenses, lense caps, filters, cleaning cloths etc.

I often bought larger cleaning cloths and wrapped accessories with them. Basically sorta like padding but worked for wiping lenses as well.

But tripods... god damn that's the real headache I have. An excellent one that's exactly what I need, sturdy, ultra light, fast to deploy AND balanced isn't cheap. After a few years, they can get messed up and even after repairing them they aren't the same. I know people who are beyond hobbyists for cameras and basically low level professionals and they're awesome. But I can't justify it and I wouldn't dare borrow them for fear of damaging them.

[btimbit]

Awesome, awesome, awesome stuff guys, thanks everyone for taking the time to write up your thoughts on this. I definitely have both some gear to check out and some good jumping off points to do some research now