[Rumour] Lebrun: CGY & CAR talked about Lindholm trade that could involve Hamilton and Hanifin

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

Gaudreau - Monahan - Ferland
Tkachuk - Backlund - Frolik
Bennett - Jankowski - Lindholm

Tkachuk is really being wasted riding shotgun with Backlund. He needs a center with much better offensive instincts and way more creativity. Tkachuk could be a big goal scorer with the right center. I still content that the best center in the Flames organization in that regard is Jankowski. I think Jankowski and Tkachuk would find immediate chemistry and provide a second dynamic duo on the team. Backlund and Frolik work well off each other because they play similar games. Leave them together and find the third piece that complements their game.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Umm no. Lindholm is a better player than Bennett . That alone would make the flames better. I would also argue that finding a third liner in fa would not be that hard to replace Bennett. I hope Bennett breaks out because he is a flame but he really has not showed anything that he will be a top 6 player.

The point was subtracting one for the other at best makes you marginally better. The Flames need forward depth. Period.

[goflamesgo18]

Johnny - mony - lindholm
Tkachuk - janko - bennett
Ferland - backlund - frolik

[bzoo02]

Originally Posted by New Era

Tkachuk is really being wasted riding shotgun with Backlund. He needs a center with much better offensive instincts and way more creativity. Tkachuk could be a big goal scorer with the right center. I still content that the best center in the Flames organization in that regard is Jankowski. I think Jankowski and Tkachuk would find immediate chemistry and provide a second dynamic duo on the team. Backlund and Frolik work well off each other because they play similar games. Leave them together and find the third piece that complements their game.

Gaudreau - Monahan - Ferland

Tkachuk - Jankowski - Bennett

Mangiapane - Backlund - Frolik

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by FlamesFanTrev

Not this again. Brouwer has ALMOST negative value.

No almost about it.

Brouwer could only be moved if Calgary added a serious sweetner or took back undesirable cap hit. He has negative value.

And as you say, Bennett has reasonable value still.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

The point was subtracting one for the other at best makes you marginally better. The Flames need forward depth. Period.

And you can do that more ways than just one way. Am I missing something that states flames can only make one trade and no other pick ups?

[Royle9]

Hey can we stop assuming that Lindholm on the 1st line with Johnny and Sean would NOT equal at least what Ferland put up in his CAREER season. Ferland is not a perennial 20g scorer, lets call a spade a spade here. He had 1 semi-decent season (all in the first half) and then fell back down to earth for the 2nd half. Ferland is a great player, but hes not a long term #1 RW solution, he's a guy that can float up and down your lineup and be effective on any single line (when he's playing physical)

There's no denying Lindholm has the higher offensive ceiling here, the guys putting up 45+ points every NHL season already. How can any of you claim he wouldn't turn into a 20g+ guy playing 1st line RW + trigger man on our PP2 unit? I'd like to take a bet on that if we do end up picking him up.

We literally just saw a guy from Vegas go from 20pts a season (6g/14a) for 2 seasons then turn into a 40g/80p sniper overnight. I can guarantee NOBODY would have predicted that and all it took was a change of scenery and an opportunity to play meaningful minutes in a top 6 role.

I think Lindholm would flourish in a role like that, he'd also become the first RHS trigger man the Flames have had in many years.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

And you can do that more ways than just one way. Am I missing something that states flames can only make one trade and no other pick ups?

Of course you can. I don’t believe anyone has said otherwise. But this is a specific thread about a specific topic that has included for the most part the names: Hamilton, Bennett, Ferland & Brodie. Moving one of those two forwards for Lindholm means you need another forward. Feel free to post something enlightening on the Trade Speculation thread.

[kukkudo]

Another note if the Flames do acquire Lindholm, he has the best teacher in Backlund.

[Strange Brew]

I am intrigued by the idea of acquiring Lindhold and Hanifin, two young players, at the right price. I can think of two cases where BT overpaid for two players (Lazar, Shinkaruk) who have been unable to live up to their draft position so I hope this is a case where the players are being valued based on their NHL performance to date. Their draft position isn't that relevant anymore.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Royle9

Hey can we stop assuming that Lindholm on the 1st line with Johnny and Sean would NOT equal at least what Ferland put up in his CAREER season.

Yeah, I mean remember when Iginla was going to go to another team and become a 50 goal scorer because he was playing with better centers? Good times as we regale in the reminiscences of those big goal scoring seasons!

Reality is that certain players excel in certain circumstances. Ferland is a great fit on that first line because he is a multi-dimensional player who brings an ability to score along with a physical edge that keeps the opposition honest. This is the dynamic on that line which allows Gaudreau and Monahan more room to do what they do. Lindholm, while a good player in his own right, does not provide those qualities. Lindholm is more like Bennett and would not provide that space making quality for Gaudreau and Monahan. Bennett was not a good fit on that line, so there is no guarantee that Lindholm would do much better. It is an unknown, but trends suggest the line does best with someone who can make room for that duo to generate scoring chances.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by New Era

Ferland is a great fit on that first line because he is a multi-dimensional player who brings an ability to score along with a physical edge that keeps the opposition honest. This is the dynamic on that line which allows Gaudreau and Monahan more room to do what they do. Lindholm, while a good player in his own right, does not provide those qualities. Lindholm is more like Bennett and would not provide that space making quality for Gaudreau and Monahan. Bennett was not a good fit on that line, so there is no guarantee that Lindholm would do much better. It is an unknown, but trends suggest the line does best with someone who can make room for that duo to generate scoring chances.

Very well put. Ferland is going nowhere. People also forget his McGratton like character, putting his life back together. He brings even more than his great chemistry and stat trend line.

He is one of those 'good in the room' guys that can actually play.

Some folks are throwing him into deals like cart filler when he could be the most complete player in the trade.

[Split98]

If the lines are broken into pairs, Ferland makes a ton of sense on the 1st line. I think there were times that Ferland was exactly what Johnny & Monny needed on the RW - they needed space. But some teams that allowed them to move around a bit more showed a huge opportunity for someone with a heavy shot to wreak havoc. Personally, I think Stone is the best upgrade we can make on RW, but that's another conversation entirely.

A player like Lindholm could find a few homes with this setup. Let's assume these pairs:

Gaudreau - Monahan
Tkachuk - Jankowski
Backlund - Frolik

With Lindholm in the mix, he can play wing on all 3 of those lines. Add Bennet and Foo into the mix and you have some pretty lethal combinations considering what we have. Consider Lazar and Mangiapane as well, and we have some pretty good versatility.

But I don't see Lindholm being a critical piece to any of these lines. I would hope that the cost of Hamilton would bring us a game-breaker that would compliment any of those.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I am intrigued by the idea of acquiring Lindhold and Hanifin, two young players, at the right price. I can think of two cases where BT overpaid for two players (Lazar, Shinkaruk) who have been unable to live up to their draft position so I hope this is a case where the players are being valued based on their NHL performance to date. Their draft position isn't that relevant anymore.

I see it as a risk. Hamilton may be a good option to get a better player than hoping these young guys can develop into roles. We cam always worry about the other intangibles through other options but the assets available are not always there to get an elite skilled player. I hope they go for a home run instead of potential.

[dammage79]

The point to acquiring lindholm is he can help the team almost anywhere in your forward ranks. all 4 center spots, all 4 RW spots. His versatility is a big key to all of this talk.

I get the Ferland love even though I am no fan. But he is not better than Lindholm, full stop. Lets just put that to bed right now.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by dammage79

The point to acquiring lindholm is he can help the team almost anywhere in your forward ranks. all 4 center spots, all 4 RW spots. His versatility is a big key to all of this talk.

I get the Ferland love even though I am no fan. But he is not better than Lindholm, full stop. Lets just put that to bed right now.

I would think that Lindholm is a better overall player but offensively I don't think he's a big upgrade on Ferland. I just don't know if he moves the needle enough as this team needs a legit scoring winger that's a threat to score 30+ annually not these maybe 15-20 goal guys.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Kybb79

Bennett sucks he is a bust. At least Ferly hits the net.

Guess you're not familiar with the term bust.

[kukkudo]

[QUOTE=New Era;6715941]Yeah, I mean remember when Iginla was going to go to another team and become a 50 goal scorer because he was playing with better centers? Good times as we regale in the reminiscences of those big goal scoring seasons!

Are you talking about the Iginla that was traded when he was out of his prime? If Iginla had any of the big centres from the early 2000's he would have had many 40-50 goal seasons.

[Split98]

Originally Posted by dammage79

The point to acquiring lindholm is he can help the team almost anywhere in your forward ranks. all 4 center spots, all 4 RW spots. His versatility is a big key to all of this talk.

I get the Ferland love even though I am no fan. But he is not better than Lindholm, full stop. Lets just put that to bed right now.

I think comparing Ferland to Lindholm really depends on the metrics you're evaluating them by.

I don't think it's unthinkable to watch a CGY vs. CAR game and come away thinking Ferland was the better player in that game. They both bring a different set of skills, and I don't think Lindholm has produced at a level that puts him above Ferland when he's playing heavy.

If you leave Lindholm room in front of the net, he'll be able to corral rebounds and find dangerous areas very well. But, he can be shut down if the target is on him. Ferland is difficult to contain and makes his own room pretty effectively. He can draw a lot of attention and give Johnny room to move, and we saw this resulted in Monahan having a lot of clear shots from very dangerous chances. Lindholm relies on having a bit more open room, and with 2 other players looking for the same they would be relying on winning a lot of 1-on-1 battles to make room.

As an example, Lindholm will be effective against teams like the Oilers where stretch passes erode their D on entry, and a good cycle play is pretty easy to establish. Playing against Nashville would be a different story. You would want a guy like Ferland (...or Stone) who can fight for himself and force the play down-low.

[wretched34]

Originally Posted by dammage79

The point to acquiring lindholm is he can help the team almost anywhere in your forward ranks. all 4 center spots, all 4 RW spots. His versatility is a big key to all of this talk.

I get the Ferland love even though I am no fan. But he is not better than Lindholm, full stop. Lets just put that to bed right now.

I agree and Disagree.
I agree in that Lindholm is the better all around player, but I feel Ferland is the Better player on the Flames top line.

Ferland's dynamic on the Flames top line is exactly what Johnny and Money require to excel. Ferland can produce there, but that's where it ends. If he's not producing on that top RW, he's nothing more than an average 3rd liner.

That's where having a guy like Lindholm becomes invaluable. He can fill in on that top RW and provide close to the same offense as Ferland, which was our downfall last year, when Ferland went cold, there was no plugging the hole, and the ship started sinking. Lindholm can also produce throughout the rest of the line-up though, which makes the Flames a better team all around.

If we were to acquire Lindholm some how, my forward lines would look like this: (Assuming A defender was the piece moved out for Lindholm)

Johnny-Money-Ferland
Tkachuk-Jankowski-Lindholm
Frolik-Backlund-Bennett
Lazar-Shore-Brouwer/Foo

When Ferland goes cold he gets to reset on the 3rd RW, while Lindholm and Bennett move up a line.

If a center gets injured, Lindholm can fill that hole and someone like Foo moves onto the 3rd RW.

A Lindholm+Hanifin deal is almost worth Hamilton in my eyes, but I'd still have trouble pulling that trigger.
Hopefully Carolina can find another partner to move Hanifin too for a forward or picks, and then a package around Brodie could be made for Lindholm.