Ring Road To Nowhere

[Southside]

Originally Posted by Stealth22

I think he's saying that because Nenshi is Muslim, he would give more importance to a NE-related project, since most NE residents are of East Indian descent.

Not an issue of race at all. Rather an issue of what infrastructure projects and plans he seems to get passionate about and put priority on. How that comment was ever taken as racial is beyond me.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

You'll have to expand on this.

I think he was implying Nenshi only works for brown people.

[Southside]

Originally Posted by Addick

While it may provide some great benefits in the future, we have more than $5B worth of projects needed today/yesterday that surely must outweigh such benefits with their own (both short and long-term).

Yeah that airport tunnel sure put a lot of infrastructure projects that were badly needed on the shelf.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Addick

While it may provide some great benefits in the future, we have more than $5B worth of projects needed today/yesterday that surely must outweigh such benefits with their own (both short and long-term).

Alas, that is an apples and oranges comparison. The $5 billion is for the province's share of the project and that falls under their list of priorities. For Calgary, the cost here would be $133 million (before the inevitable bloat), and that is what potentially impacts other city projects.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by Addick

While it may provide some great benefits in the future, we have more than $5B worth of projects needed today/yesterday that surely must outweigh such benefits with their own (both short and long-term).

There will always be needs that are needed in the present because we'll always be playing catch up. With how long we've been negotiating with the Nation, and FINALLY get an agreement that's on a time limit, those other needs will have to wait so we can get this one done in time and out of the way. Then we can deal with the other necessities at the top of the list.

[Addick]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Alas, that is an apples and oranges comparison. The $5 billion is for the province's share of the project and that falls under their list of priorities. For Calgary, the cost here would be $133 million (before the inevitable bloat), and that is what potentially impacts other city projects.

Due to the configuration of Municipal Governance in the Province (i.e. Taxation & Financing) the money basically comes from the same pool and the Province should be considering our local needs and priorities alongside their own. Additionally, there are other priorities on the Province's list that are more pressing. For example, flood prevention.

[Addick]

Originally Posted by Joborule

There will always be needs that are needed in the present because we'll always be playing catch up.

So we should continue to play catch up with X and Y so Z can be completed proactively?

Originally Posted by Joborule

With how long we've been negotiating with the Nation, and FINALLY get an agreement that's on a time limit, those other needs will have to wait so we can get this one done in time and out of the way. Then we can deal with the other necessities at the top of the list.

Would those negotiations have taken place so soon if the SWRR was treated with less urgency?

[Manhattanboy]

I am fed up with this. Build the goddam road already.

My understanding is that the agreement with the TTN needs to be ratified by Order in Council (cabinet). What is taking so long?

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by Tron_fdc

This is why I HATE politics.

You had anti-cycling guys complaining about cost for downtown bike lanes, whose wards were on the outskirts of the city.

The guys wanting the cycling lanes are now the guys complaining about the ring road, which just happens to affect the areas of the anti cycling guys.

We also have people (the mayor, nonetheless) "making note" that the cost is similar to an LRT lane to another portion of the city.

WTF is the point of all this? We need the effing road done, and it's VITAL to so much mkore than just the city (as Ken pointed out). Pick your battles (mayor and aldermen), because this whole "debate" and comments REEK of a kindergarten sandbox argument.

I mean hey, maybe there's a reason for all this, but it sure comes across as a petty council squabble.

This is why I am in favour of slates at the municipal level.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by Addick

So we should continue to play catch up with X and Y so Z can be completed proactively?

Unless you got several boatloads of money that we can use now to fund every significant project the city wants, it would be wise too. Especially when the costs to the city itself isn't that much compared to the project as a whole, that is being done by the province. If we're not doing one thing, then we'll be doing the other. The LRT is needed, but so is the SWRR since all legs but this one has been completed, complete out TUC corridor, would relive pressure off the current roads used by SW commutes, save the costs of doing in the future when it's even more necessary, and possibly more costly, as well we have only several years to get the road done before the deal is off.

Would those negotiations have taken place so soon if the SWRR was treated with less urgency?

It shouldn't have taken since the 1960s when negotiation started till now to get the deal approved, but we can't change history. We can only work to make the best decisions now. And right now, the city can pay $133M to pay connections to a road that is going to be greatly used, or find someway to pay $5B to build an LRT line that doesn't even have an approved plan yet.

[Cabbage]

I am going to predict when all said and done, in the future that the SW section will have the lowest volume of the whole ring road. If you look at the volume maps from 2012 (newest) it shows areas of the ring road that have communities on both sides are busier than the areas that don't. The SW section will not have communities on both sides for large portions of it.

http://www.calgary.ca/Transportation...owmap_city.pdf

I also believe that spending that money to fix Crowchild over Bow Trail up to the university and Deerfoot between Southland and Glenmore would benefit many more people.

Chris

[puffnstuff]

So I clicked on that map. it shows a lot of traffic is on Deerfoot, a lot on Glenmore...if only there was a proposed road that could get people N/S like DF does and/or E/W like Glenmore does...hey wait a minute.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Cabbage

I am going to predict when all said and done, in the future that the SW section will have the lowest volume of the whole ring road. If you look at the volume maps from 2012 (newest) it shows areas of the ring road that have communities on both sides are busier than the areas that don't. The SW section will not have communities on both sides for large portions of it.

http://www.calgary.ca/Transportation...owmap_city.pdf

I also believe that spending that money to fix Crowchild over Bow Trail up to the university and Deerfoot between Southland and Glenmore would benefit many more people.

Chris

Because the reserve caps growth, the SW ring road will have the lowest immediate population, absolutely. But the suggested realignment of Highway 1 to skirt the city rather than run through 16th Avenue would make this a terribly vital link of Canada's east-west transport corridor. Finishing Stoney is a necessary project. And unlike Crowchild and Deerfoot (but a lot like the Airport tunnel) is a time limited one. No matter how hard Druh rattles her bike chains, she can't stop this without causing long-term damage to the entire region's ability to move people and product.

[Mazrim]

I just wish that the train of thought hadn't become "Bikes vs Ring Roads" now, as it seemingly has...what if we want both? Sometimes it feels like you can't want both because they aren't "compatible".

[Cabbage]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Because the reserve caps growth, the SW ring road will have the lowest immediate population, absolutely. But the suggested realignment of Highway 1 to skirt the city rather than run through 16th Avenue would make this a terribly vital link of Canada's east-west transport corridor. Finishing Stoney is a necessary project. And unlike Crowchild and Deerfoot (but a lot like the Airport tunnel) is a time limited one. No matter how hard Druh rattles her bike chains, she can't stop this without causing long-term damage to the entire region's ability to move people and product.

I am not against the connection... I am just making a prediction that it will be the lowest volume of traffic... The connection is important but the volume of traffic connecting is small potatoes to daily commuters.

Look at the map I posted the Trans Canada shows 27000 at the far west side.... The Section of Deerfoot I am looking at shows 150,000 and Crowchild part is a 107,000. Which projects would have a greatest effect?

Chris

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by Southside

Not an issue of race at all. Rather an issue of what infrastructure projects and plans he seems to get passionate about and put priority on. How that comment was ever taken as racial is beyond me.

So outside of the airport tunnel (which was an election platform promise that he kept) what other projects has Nenshi been pushing for in NE Calgary over the other quadrants?

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Cabbage

Look at the map I posted the Trans Canada shows 27000 at the far west side.... The Section of Deerfoot I am looking at shows 150,000 and Crowchild part is a 107,000. Which projects would have a greatest effect

Don't disagree with your general point, but in this case, there is a time limit on getting the road built. Because of that, it really doesn't matter. Funding for SW Stoney has to come first.

[Tron_fdc]

Originally Posted by Cabbage

I am going to predict when all said and done, in the future that the SW section will have the lowest volume of the whole ring road. If you look at the volume maps from 2012 (newest) it shows areas of the ring road that have communities on both sides are busier than the areas that don't. The SW section will not have communities on both sides for large portions of it.

http://www.calgary.ca/Transportation...owmap_city.pdf

I also believe that spending that money to fix Crowchild over Bow Trail up to the university and Deerfoot between Southland and Glenmore would benefit many more people.

Chris

The ring road is going to get a MASSIVE amount of truck traffic off Glenmore; you can't discount that.

So although the volume my be lower in the SW portion, the other benefits that come along with it impact the entire city (less volume on 16th, crowchild, Glenmore, etc).

I also don't see the city/province as throwing money around on it either. If they had of done it (TTN negotiation and construction) 30 years ago it would have cost a fraction of the current cost. Same thing if we wait another 30, it will be ungodly expensive.

Rip off that bandaid. Pay the price, build the road.

[Southside]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

So outside of the airport tunnel (which was an election platform promise that he kept) what other projects has Nenshi been pushing for in NE Calgary over the other quadrants?

The tunnel pretty well killed infrastructure everywhere else. I recall the City priorities for infrastructure in 2009 were; Southeast LRT, Stephen Avenue Subway, 16th Avenue NE corridor, SE Industrial - 52nd and CNR as well as Glenmore and 68th interchange, MacLeod Trail including interchanges at Heritage Drive, Lake Fraser Gate and 162nd Avenue and alas the Airport Tunnel. So, you tell me, how are we doing?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Tron_fdc

The ring road is going to get a MASSIVE amount of truck traffic off Glenmore; you can't discount that.

So although the volume my be lower in the SW portion, the other benefits that come along with it impact the entire city (less volume on 16th, crowchild, Glenmore, etc).

I also don't see the city/province as throwing money around on it either. If they had of done it (TTN negotiation and construction) 30 years ago it would have cost a fraction of the current cost. Same thing if we wait another 30, it will be ungodly expensive.

Rip off that bandaid. Pay the price, build the road.

I hate the arguement if you built long ago it would have been cheaper or build it now or the price will go U in the future.

Its just not true. The cost of a construction project only increases at the rate of inflation of construction costs. This year to year is both lower and higher than the general rate of inflation but tracks it pretty closely. Why these projects cost more now is that they are designed to a hire standard. If they had built the ring road 30 years ago it would look like the mess crowchild and downtown is or deerfoot and Glenmore.

You can cut a huge chunk of the cost if you built it to the 30 year old standard. This is also true about arenas