Solidarity with Sask Teachers

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by 2ArmBands

Question:

When have classrooms not had 28-31 kids. This was the norm for me when I went to school 20 plus years ago. I don't think its ever changed? Nor has teachers threatening "cancelling of extra curricular activities" as leverage to get what they really want.

Same old song and dance.

These numbers are outdated because reporting ended in 2019 but across the CBE through junior high classes averaged under 26. For elementary it was 20 and 24 based on ages. My kids classes are still right in line with the 2019 numbers but we are inner city and there probably isn't as much population growth here as compared to the suburbs.

https://www.cbe.ab.ca/FormsManuals/C...ion-Report.pdf

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Where would that be? I’m same timeline, not in Calgary, and was always 28+. Small town?

Medicine Hat, Grande Prairie, Brooks and Dawson Creek

DC was an exception though, they had such a teacher shortage grade 5/6 was combined into one room with one teacher, probably 40 ish kids

[White Out 403]

I wish teachers had to deal with the awful private sector for a while. It's actually ####ing infuriating hearing teachers whine over every god damn thing, they have no idea how good they have it. And this is coming from a union loving, billionaire hating leftist.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

I wish teachers had to deal with the awful private sector for a while. It's actually ####ing infuriating hearing teachers whine over every god damn thing, they have no idea how good they have it. And this is coming from a union loving, billionaire hating leftist.

I know so many teachers IRL. They all think it's the sweetest gig. My one friend's main gripe is the summer is so long he gets kinda bored by the end because nobody else is available to do stuff because we're all working.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I know so many teachers IRL. They all think it's the sweetest gig. My one friend's main gripe is the summer is so long he gets kinda bored by the end because nobody else is available to do stuff because we're all working.

I wont get in to specifics but I have lots of family who are teachers. The #### they get to do is incredible.

10 years ago at my last job, at telus, I wanted to visit Croatia. I didn't have a family yet, was single, and could afford to go. I gave them 18 months notice I wanted to take a 2 week leave of absence on top of my vacation days so I could spend over a month in Zagreb and Hvar. They denied it. We won the grievance after 7 months but by then the best they were willing to offer was an October time off, not September like I wanted.

One of my family whos a teacher took off a year sabbatical just to visit Europe. No questions asked, no problems.

[FlamesAddiction]

School seems to have changed a lot since I was in school. My kid is in grade 3 and gets way more homework than I ever had at that age. They get dictation material that is entirely meant to be taught at home and they don't even go over it in class. My wife and I were really busy one week and slacked on doing daily dictation with our kid, and she bombed the test. I asked the teacher if they don't also practice it at school, and the teacher said no, that the material sent home and is meant to be taught at home. When I was in elementary school, all the work was done in class and if you had homework at that age, it was because you were goofing off and didn't do it in class.

We also decided, at the recommendation of the teacher, to get private tutoring after school a few days a week (because I am not a trained educator), and it isn't cheap. To our surprise, when we showed up in the evening for the tutoring, more than half of her class was also there getting private tutoring.

[manwiches]

Originally Posted by spotthefan

Niche, perhaps. But want to jump on and say to any possible Sask Teachers on here that I and others in Alberta stand in solidarity with you right now as you push through perhaps the most difficult part of the job action, cancelling extra curricular events that are widely popular.

And for Alberta, take note. It is coming.

Edit:

For clarity for anyone who is unaware. There is a currently labour conflict betweent he Sask Teachers Federation and the Sask government. Teachers was class size and complexity negotiated into the contract and government doesn't.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saska...dget-1.7149219

My wife is a teacher in Regina here. Many details out there, but some key things to know

- government was never going to negotiate in good faith. I'm misremembering dates, but prior to the CBA expiring, the government had engaged the advertising company that's run a smear campaign, 2-3 months prior to the CBA actually expiring
- said smear campaign, is painting teachers like all they care about is a raise, and also stating untrue numbers on the raise they are requesting and that they are given. Simply put, teachers are serially underpaid in this country. Period
- my wife could give 2 #####s abouts the pay increase. Sure it's nice, but the issue of classroom complexity is what's at issue, and what the government does not want to put on the table. Fix this issue, and most teachers, if not all, are happy to go back to work.
- What is classroom complexity you ask? I'll use my wife's current grade 4 classroom as an example. She had 29 kids to start the year. Now she has 31. She has 2 children with severe learning disabilities, 5 ESL students, and 2 students with severe behavioural issues. She has an EA that comes 30 min a day. And this is in a more affluent area of the the city. This doesn't account for her messaging parents after hours, marking and inputting grades, dealing with the emotional drain of the day and all this while still trying to plan and teach the other students in her class. She is burnt out every single day, and emotionally, physically, and mentally exhausted. She loves what she does, but also wants to quit, as it's not doing well for her mental well being.
- The government refuses to address these issues, instead towing a line of inclusivity and bandaid solutions that won't put handling these issues front and center. Teachers are burning out like crazy in this province, as well as the country and States.
- This will seem crass, but truly, kids with issues, learning disabilities, and other learning challenges, should be placed in other classrooms. Class room sizes should not exceed 25 kids. These are just basic things. I have a 10 year old, who tells me all the time how his teacher always has to focus on these other students, instead of focussing on the rest of the class. The other 70% of the class is left to do worksheets, and fend for themselves. My child has lost his love for school at Grade 5, and it's because of situations like this. Teachers are there to raise leaders and contributing members of society. Not pander to the minority. I am not saying that the minority should be forgotten. But there should be other class rooms or resources that they can use, rather than take away from the other 70%, like my child.
- This whole strike and CBA thing has been going on all year. Government and public hasn't really given a crap. Sure, your kids will miss a few days of school, or lunch room etc etc. But with Hoopla being threatened to be cancelled this weekend, GOD FORBID MY CHILDREN MISS THEIR SPORTS. Get a clue.

Anyways, I could go on and on. My wife just wants to go back to work and not be stressed, burnt out, and overworked. Government and the idiot education minister need to get their head out of their a$$

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by manwiches

- This will seem crass, but truly, kids with issues, learning disabilities, and other learning challenges, should be placed in other classrooms. Class room sizes should not exceed 25 kids. These are just basic things. I have a 10 year old, who tells me all the time how his teacher always has to focus on these other students, instead of focussing on the rest of the class. The other 70% of the class is left to do worksheets, and fend for themselves. My child has lost his love for school at Grade 5, and it's because of situations like this. Teachers are there to raise leaders and contributing members of society. Not pander to the minority. I am not saying that the minority should be forgotten. But there should be other class rooms or resources that they can use, rather than take away from the other 70%, like my child.

My son and others in his grade 1 class in his Calgary elementary school was hit repeatedly by a child with special needs last year. It happened dozens of times to several kids, and, they never told us. We only found when he told us about it happening to one of his friends. When we asked the school they quickly said "we will not disclose the student who hit your child". I didnt even ask for that information nor do I care, but it was clear the priorities were ####ed up. They didn't care about the disruption or the ongoing hitting.

[kipperiggy]

Originally Posted by marsplasticeraser

Kind of blows me away that the Sask teachers are striking because they want fewer students in their classes.

Like their grievance is they want to be more effective teachers, and they can't do that with so many kids.

Looking at my kids classes here in Calgary and they are 28-31 kids. It's a lot of rowdy kids and education must be compromised with such large class sizes.

Seems really easy for a government to agree to cap class sizes, I don't get why they are resisting?

Because then the Sask Party would be held accountable to an actual signed contract, and they are allergic to accountability.

[manwiches]

Originally Posted by kipperiggy

Because then the Sask Party would be held accountable to an actual signed contract, and they are allergic to accountability.

If they think the Teachers issue is bad, the Nursing CBA ends this summer too i believe.

It's gonna be an NDP government again at this rate.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

I wont get in to specifics but I have lots of family who are teachers. The #### they get to do is incredible.

10 years ago at my last job, at telus, I wanted to visit Croatia. I didn't have a family yet, was single, and could afford to go. I gave them 18 months notice I wanted to take a 2 week leave of absence on top of my vacation days so I could spend over a month in Zagreb and Hvar. They denied it. We won the grievance after 7 months but by then the best they were willing to offer was an October time off, not September like I wanted.

One of my family whos a teacher took off a year sabbatical just to visit Europe. No questions asked, no problems.

Why are teachers at fault for having negotiated better working conditions?

There are private sector companies where your request would have been accommodated, you just didn’t have that right at your former workplace.

You’re making it look like any teacher at any time can just ask to take a personal leave of absence and be approved, which is certainly not the case.

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I know so many teachers IRL. They all think it's the sweetest gig. My one friend's main gripe is the summer is so long he gets kinda bored by the end because nobody else is available to do stuff because we're all working.

You don't know any teachers. Come on.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by you&me

Right... I was mostly just poking at your post 1) green text for judges in the private sector (though I suppose those qualified to be a judge may have better opportunities at a law firm) and 2) you said "things aren't much better in the private sector.", which they clearly seem to be, across the board... Nurses, doctors, teachers... working less for the same (or in some cases, significantly better) pay.

Maybe I misphrased that. What I meant was that there is a shortage of public workers like teachers, nurses, judges, GPs, paramedics etc...

There are also shortages of private industry workers, which would largely be different from the occupations I listed as public (although there are some privately employed teachers, nurses, etc..)

Basically, there is a labour shortage across the board.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Why are teachers at fault for having negotiated better working conditions?

There are private sector companies where your request would have been accommodated, you just didn’t have that right at your former workplace.

You’re making it look like any teacher at any time can just ask to take a personal leave of absence and be approved, which is certainly not the case.

Yeah that's how I always look at these things too

Don't be upset at others for having it better, be upset at your employer for being crappy

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Why are teachers at fault for having negotiated better working conditions?

There are private sector companies where your request would have been accommodated, you just didn’t have that right at your former workplace.

You’re making it look like any teacher at any time can just ask to take a personal leave of absence and be approved, which is certainly not the case.

Who said they're at fault?

I said that I'm tired of the whining from teachers over their working conditions. Feel free to ignore my opinion if you don't like it or share it. I'm not saying that I want the government to run roughshod over the teachers.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by manwiches

My wife is a teacher in Regina here. Many details out there, but some key things to know

- government was never going to negotiate in good faith. I'm misremembering dates, but prior to the CBA expiring, the government had engaged the advertising company that's run a smear campaign, 2-3 months prior to the CBA actually expiring
- said smear campaign, is painting teachers like all they care about is a raise, and also stating untrue numbers on the raise they are requesting and that they are given. Simply put, teachers are serially underpaid in this country. Period
- my wife could give 2 #####s abouts the pay increase. Sure it's nice, but the issue of classroom complexity is what's at issue, and what the government does not want to put on the table. Fix this issue, and most teachers, if not all, are happy to go back to work.
- What is classroom complexity you ask? I'll use my wife's current grade 4 classroom as an example. She had 29 kids to start the year. Now she has 31. She has 2 children with severe learning disabilities, 5 ESL students, and 2 students with severe behavioural issues. She has an EA that comes 30 min a day. And this is in a more affluent area of the the city. This doesn't account for her messaging parents after hours, marking and inputting grades, dealing with the emotional drain of the day and all this while still trying to plan and teach the other students in her class. She is burnt out every single day, and emotionally, physically, and mentally exhausted. She loves what she does, but also wants to quit, as it's not doing well for her mental well being.
- The government refuses to address these issues, instead towing a line of inclusivity and bandaid solutions that won't put handling these issues front and center. Teachers are burning out like crazy in this province, as well as the country and States.
- This will seem crass, but truly, kids with issues, learning disabilities, and other learning challenges, should be placed in other classrooms. Class room sizes should not exceed 25 kids. These are just basic things. I have a 10 year old, who tells me all the time how his teacher always has to focus on these other students, instead of focussing on the rest of the class. The other 70% of the class is left to do worksheets, and fend for themselves. My child has lost his love for school at Grade 5, and it's because of situations like this. Teachers are there to raise leaders and contributing members of society. Not pander to the minority. I am not saying that the minority should be forgotten. But there should be other class rooms or resources that they can use, rather than take away from the other 70%, like my child.
- This whole strike and CBA thing has been going on all year. Government and public hasn't really given a crap. Sure, your kids will miss a few days of school, or lunch room etc etc. But with Hoopla being threatened to be cancelled this weekend, GOD FORBID MY CHILDREN MISS THEIR SPORTS. Get a clue.

Anyways, I could go on and on. My wife just wants to go back to work and not be stressed, burnt out, and overworked. Government and the idiot education minister need to get their head out of their a$$

My brother is a high school teacher in Regina and essentially just double what you've just written. The exact same perspective.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Sliver

lol. Those were the class sizes (even up to 35) through the early 80s and 90s when I was in school. Every single teacher in Canada knew those were the class sizes before their first day in the education program at university because they went through school with those exact class sizes.

Just because something can work doesn’t mean it’s the best option. I don’t think there is any data that would support an argument that in most cases a class of 15-20 is going to benefit from the additional time with their teacher compared to a class of 30-35.

The government is resisting class size reductions because of all the additional costs associated with reducing them. You'd need more buildings, more staff, etc. Plus, this works. Always has and always will.

The health care system technically “works”, but that doesn’t mean it can’t be improved. If smaller class sizes didn’t improve outcomes then one would have to wonder why for-profit private schools generally cap their class sizes at much lower numbers and intentionally deprive themselves of the additional profit.

As for kids' mental health issues, those have always been there, but we just have names for a bunch of them now that we didn't used to have. People haven't changed.

Let’s say you’re right(even though I think this is debatable) and there are no additional kids with mental health issues compared to in the past, even if that was the case you couldn’t possibly deny that there are far more ESL students than there were before and that clearly adds additional challenges to teaching a class.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by blankall

Maybe I misphrased that. What I meant was that there is a shortage of public workers like teachers, nurses, judges, GPs, paramedics etc...

There are also shortages of private industry workers, which would largely be different from the occupations I listed as public (although there are some privately employed teachers, nurses, etc..)

Basically, there is a labour shortage across the board.

Like everything else, industries and institutions in Canada can't keep up with the inorganic population growth the country has experienced in recent years.

[WhiteTiger]

Ah, this is likely why my Youtube algorithm has decided I get to listen to a bunch of "Why I'm Quitting Teaching" videos.

Though from the sounds of the few I have listened to, it seems like most of the problem is that the teachers are done being 'parents', especially with no support from the real parents or admin.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Like everything else, industries and institutions in Canada can't keep up with the inorganic population growth the country has experienced in recent years.

It's almost impressive that no one bothered to put any kind of immigration plan in place. You'd think with a labour shortage and increased immigration, the solution would be painfully obvious: control immigration in a way that fills the labour shortage. It seems like the people in charge have no idea themselves what industries are short what people. Public bodies are just desperately bribing workers with short term pay raises, hoping the problem eventually fixes itself.