Electric vehicle war, is gas soon to be toast?

[photon]

To get it soon maybe the only option would be used? Maybe some really low km's one.

I glanced at Auto Trader and yuck, used Hyundai Ioniq 5's selling for $10,000+ premium over new.

New Tesla Model Y says delivery from now to 3 months, but is $85k! Yuck.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by photon

To get it soon maybe the only option would be used? Maybe some really low km's one.

I glanced at Auto Trader and yuck, used Hyundai Ioniq 5's selling for $10,000+ premium over new.

New Tesla Model Y says delivery from now to 3 months, but is $85k! Yuck.

Thanks. I was wondering if she was limiting herself by dealing with Vancouver Island and Vancouver dealers. But I guess it really is tough to find anything in Canada. That seems all crazy to me, because Ioniq's and others are on the lots here and others are a short wait.

The Model Y would be a decent option. But with us souring on Tesla and the 85k price tag, it's not that attractive.

[photon]

What about importing something from the US to Canada? If there's lots of Ioniq 5's there (and I think that would be a good option) then maybe it'd be easier just to get one there and drive it up. Hyundai's are importable afaik.

Though I really have no idea how much of a hassle that is overall.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by photon

What about importing something from the US to Canada? If there's lots of Ioniq 5's there (and I think that would be a good option) then maybe it'd be easier just to get one there and drive it up. Hyundai's are importable afaik.

Though I really have no idea how much of a hassle that is overall.

We definitely thought of that. My quick math says that they are a lot more expensive here after conversion and then adding whatever duties/taxes fees to cross the border make it quite a bit more than even the marked up lightly used ones.

[I_H8_Crawford]

The question I always had about Tesla was "how will they handle it when the big boys get into EVs?"

Mercedes has beat Tesla to level 3 autonomy it looks like:

https://insideevs.com/news/630075/me...ing-in-the-us/

Also, I know earlier people were talking about the EQS and EQS SUV... They have both in stock at Country Hills Mercedes - I checked out the EQS SUV 580 on the weekend.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

I'm going to probably cross post a bit here. But my mom brought has imported her older Prius to give to my son here in the US. She's staying in Arizona the next couple months, but really needs a car at home when she goes back.

She's really hoping for an EV. She was on the Prius Prime waitlist and was kind of counting on that, but it doesn't look like it is going to happen.

She's willing to spend $50-60k cash or perhaps a bit more for the right vehicle, but can't find anything at all in to buy or even to order to come in a couple months.

She wants a smallish suv or hatchback that she can put a women's bike inside with the car seats down and wants it to be a full EV or possibly plug in hybrid.

Any thoughts on what could be available or how best to acquire something in the next couple months? She lives on Vancouver island, and I think she'd be good getting something anywhere in BC. She thinks Alberta is too burdensome to bring back to BC, but I'm not sure it is that hard?

Anyone who can help at all would be appreciated or a hook up with someone who could help!

How much mileage does she drive? If it's not a lot, then there isn't much rationale for a full EV - financially or even environmentally from an allocation of resources standpoint in this time of scarcity (ie. her driving one 5000km per year would preclude someone else from getting it to drive 20000km per year).

[Sylvanfan]

Has anyone tried renting an EV from Turo, or know of a good place to do rent an EV ftom? I'm contemplating a longer road trip this summer and my current stable of vehicles are not ideal for a trip like that. The fuel savings and ability to haul camping gear might help offset the rental costs.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

I'm going to probably cross post a bit here. But my mom brought has imported her older Prius to give to my son here in the US. She's staying in Arizona the next couple months, but really needs a car at home when she goes back.

She's really hoping for an EV. She was on the Prius Prime waitlist and was kind of counting on that, but it doesn't look like it is going to happen.

She's willing to spend $50-60k cash or perhaps a bit more for the right vehicle, but can't find anything at all in to buy or even to order to come in a couple months.

She wants a smallish suv or hatchback that she can put a women's bike inside with the car seats down and wants it to be a full EV or possibly plug in hybrid.

Any thoughts on what could be available or how best to acquire something in the next couple months? She lives on Vancouver island, and I think she'd be good getting something anywhere in BC. She thinks Alberta is too burdensome to bring back to BC, but I'm not sure it is that hard?

Anyone who can help at all would be appreciated or a hook up with someone who could help!

She should have no issues getting a Tesla in two months if she orders within the next month as waiting times are down to a month for Model 3's.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

She should have no issues getting a Tesla in two months if she orders within the next month as waiting times are down to a month for Model 3's.

She'd want a Model Y, and Vancouver looks like they have all models in stock for immediate delivery. They are pricey at 89-95k. If she was going to spend that much, we'd want to have a good feeling it would hold its value like Tesla's had in the past. But with new inventory building up, competition building and Musk off the rails, it just doesn't feel like a good bet anymore.

She ended up ordering a Tucson hybrid and it should probably be good for her.

[You Need a Thneed]

Looks like a significant price drop across the board on Tesla vehicles came out this evening.

Around $10k drop or more

[You Need a Thneed]

For US customers, with the added on federal tax credit, the model y dropped in price by $20k.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

For US customers, with the added on federal tax credit, the model y dropped in price by $20k.

Yeah, that's crazy. I see a Long range model Y available now for $45k. I'd definitely consider them at that price. I can't imagine anyone who bought one a couple months ago is very happy.

[Fuzz]

Yup, with their profit per vehicle they had the room to move down, as they had raised the prices so much over the past few years. Probably a good strategy, since people were willing to pay it. Now that they have competition, they can compete on price. Be interesting to see how the market reacts.

EDIT: Oh, down 6% pre-market. So not great.

[dino7c]

Too bad the Tesla logo might as well be truck nuts now

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Yup, with their profit per vehicle they had the room to move down, as they had raised the prices so much over the past few years. Probably a good strategy, since people were willing to pay it. Now that they have competition, they can compete on price. Be interesting to see how the market reacts.

EDIT: Oh, down 6% pre-market. So not great.

For quite a while, they could have higher prices, because there was high demand, and a long wait to get.

Wait times have dropped to the point where you can get them almost right away.

I suspect other manufacturers will have to look hard at their MSRPs in the very near future. I bet that other cars will be forced to drop their prices as well. If an ioniq5 is the same price as a MY, and you can get an MY in a couple weeks, instead of months, a lot more people will go to the MY.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

For quite a while, they could have higher prices, because there was high demand, and a long wait to get.

Wait times have dropped to the point where you can get them almost right away.

I suspect other manufacturers will have to look hard at their MSRPs in the very near future. I bet that other cars will be forced to drop their prices as well. If an ioniq5 is the same price as a MY, and you can get an MY in a couple weeks, instead of months, a lot more people will go to the MY.

I'm not convinced other manufacturers will do anything. They have demand and can't build them fast enough, so no point in dropping the price.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

For quite a while, they could have higher prices, because there was high demand, and a long wait to get.

Wait times have dropped to the point where you can get them almost right away.

I suspect other manufacturers will have to look hard at their MSRPs in the very near future. I bet that other cars will be forced to drop their prices as well. If an ioniq5 is the same price as a MY, and you can get an MY in a couple weeks, instead of months, a lot more people will go to the MY.

I don't think so. Many automotive manufacturers dropped their low end models when the shortages hit to improve margins. I could almost imagine them just keeping the prices and adding packages and features to the "base model" instead going forward when their ability to manufacture speeds up.

Better base experiences with the vehicles would improve the images of the manufacturers as well.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by DoubleF

I don't think so. Many automotive manufacturers dropped their low end models when the shortages hit to improve margins. I could almost imagine them just keeping the prices and adding packages and features to the "base model" instead going forward when their ability to manufacture speeds up.

Better base experiences with the vehicles would improve the images of the manufacturers as well.

Can you give a couple of examples of makes/models you have in mind here?

[powderjunkie]

How do y'all think the aftermarket parts market will evolve for EVs? Replacement batteries in particular...

We're just at the point where the earliest adopters are beyond their warranty period, and it seems like the market will be ripe for 'cheaper' batteries that would actually make sense to drop into a 10+ year old car.

The other thing I've wondered about is the value of 'broken' batteries? Can anyone ELI5 what a typical failure looks like, and how much of a battery could be usefully refurbished? Will we see a system where you 'trade-in' your bad battery for a thousand or two off your replacement?

Any indication which OEM's are being more or less open source on their tech?

[Fuzz]

I'm not sure there is going to be an easy supply of replacement batteries from other sources. You can't just swap a bunch of cells, since they are all laser welded or have small wires welded to each cell. The new Tesla packs are impregnated with a urethane foam which is nigh impossible to disassemble.

That leaves the option of building from scratch. So then you have every model of car needing it, and Tesla alters designs so often you will need multiple designs per model. For a 3rd party this starts to become expensive, so I suspect most replacement batteries will come from manufacturers. The pouch cells other manufacturers use might be easier, I haven't watched much on battery design for those.

I could see a decent return on packs, since current raw material price is around $8k per pack. They still need to be broken down and recycled, so a few grand sounds reasonable.