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Old 08-07-2022, 10:07 AM   #1161
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It’s funny that you can post this but not concede equally likely was the wrong phrase to use. My whole point of all of my posts was you were implying precision which didn’t exist. That was it.
I clarified it so many times that at a certain point you’re just being a pedant. Find a more interesting point.

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As for Drake my point is that We are either alone or if the Universe can develop more than one advanced civilization we aren’t the most technologically advanced intelligent life. If you can’t play with the variables of the Drake equation and see why that is true I’m not sure I can help you get there. And the two possibilities amid being alone or not being alone are certainly not roughly equal.
But again, this statement is false based on current evidence, and even with the Drake equation (which you are misinterpreting the potential and limits of entirely) there is still the possibility of it being false. There’s no current scenario where you can definitively say we aren’t the most technologically advanced intelligent life. Doing so is ridiculous, so why should I take your pedantry seriously and care whether I’m being precise? You’re pretending a less than 100% probability of something being true is the same as it actually being true. I think anyone should be able to see the obvious flaw in that, so worry about helping yourself get there, I guess?
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Old 08-07-2022, 10:59 AM   #1162
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I have always felt that conventional space exploration is vain, a waste of energy and resources. Our efforts would be much better focused internally on learning how to manipulate the world around us on increasingly smaller scales. Focus on mastering the physical world and reality to the point space and time are no longer the barriers they are now. Learn how to be world builders and preservers first before using the resources of this one to try and discover others.

This is why I prefer the Barrow Scale for measuring civilization stages over the Kardaschev Scale.

https://verse-and-dimensions.fandom....i/Barrow_scale

I am willing to bet that if aliens are skipping around the universe and visiting Earth, that they skipped the part where they attach themselves to conventional fuel rockets. In fact, I think if you don’t focus internally first, you probably don’t make it out of the great filter to begin with.
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Old 08-07-2022, 12:17 PM   #1163
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I think if life can spontaneously occur anywhere, it's likely some intelligence will exist. If you look at Earth, we know creatures like octopus, dolphins, even some birds show signs of intelligence.

More important, perhaps, is having the physical adaptations to take advantage of that intelligence, which in turn increases their intelligence. Being locked in a dolphin body with fins instead of hands greatly limits the ability to create tools, and being in water limits the ability to make use of things like fire. So there may be intelligent life out there, but it isn't building rockets and radios.

In my opinion, if we detect life anywhere else, no matter how basic, odds are there is also intelligent life out there. So back to a point I made awhile ago, we are either alone, or there are countless others. Currently we only have evidence of the former, so any other pronouncements are not supported by fact.
Besides physical limits, there could also be sociological reasons for a species not exploring space. Maybe they focus on looking inward, as FlamesAddiction said, so they could live in an idyllic world with no reason to consider leaving. They're smart enough to travel to other planets, stars, or even galaxies, but they've created technology that gives them the safety and security they need without having to deal with the danger.
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Old 08-07-2022, 12:43 PM   #1164
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Besides physical limits, there could also be sociological reasons for a species not exploring space. Maybe they focus on looking inward, as FlamesAddiction said, so they could live in an idyllic world with no reason to consider leaving. They're smart enough to travel to other planets, stars, or even galaxies, but they've created technology that gives them the safety and security they need without having to deal with the danger.
Sure, some would, but I think once you have more than one intelligent species able to manipulate their environment, given the vastness of the universe, you'd have some behaving the way you describe, but also others taking every other course of action. It's reduces the number of space faring civilizations, but wouldn't eliminate the possibility.
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Old 08-07-2022, 01:01 PM   #1165
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Sure, some would, but I think once you have more than one intelligent species able to manipulate their environment, given the vastness of the universe, you'd have some behaving the way you describe, but also others taking every other course of action. It's reduces the number of space faring civilizations, but wouldn't eliminate the possibility.
Yes, it's probably a small percentage of advanced civilizations who have that luxury, if any. Humans have a natural inclination to explore but we have no idea if that's "normal". Some aliens might just chill at home.
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Old 08-07-2022, 01:05 PM   #1166
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Besides physical limits, there could also be sociological reasons for a species not exploring space. Maybe they focus on looking inward, as FlamesAddiction said, so they could live in an idyllic world with no reason to consider leaving. They're smart enough to travel to other planets, stars, or even galaxies, but they've created technology that gives them the safety and security they need without having to deal with the danger.
I think there may come a point that there are also simply resource limits. If humans have shown one thing, it’s that we tend to plunder at unsustainable rates. Every time we throw non-renewable resources into space, like precious metals and fossil fuels, that comes with an opportunity cost for other technological advances that require those resources. It may seem small now, but imagine a world centuries or even a thousands years in the future where this is accelerated and dozens of countries (or corporations) are all doing the same thing. I know people talk about them mining other planets and asteroids for those materials, but then it likely becomes a real world game of Minecraft where we are mining more materials just to keep advancing so we can find more stuff to mine.

A truly advanced civilization probably looks at mastery of life and reality as goal and not increasing their physical domain in my opinion. I think there is a good chance that conquering thee physical limits of our planet and space is a human perspective that other intelligent life might not even be interested in.
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Old 08-07-2022, 01:51 PM   #1167
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Yes, it's probably a small percentage of advanced civilizations who have that luxury, if any. Humans have a natural inclination to explore but we have no idea if that's "normal". Some aliens might just chill at home.
Exactly. That’s something I was trying to get at earlier. We can say based on the relatively few things we DO know about the stars and planets beyond ours that life existing elsewhere is possible. It might even be probable, but let’s just say it’s possible because I don’t think anyone would disagree with that.

Beyond that, there’s little you can even reasonably estimate the probability of, and a lot you can’t:
- Does life actually form on planets hospital to life?
- If life forms, what form does it take?
- If life forms, does it evolve similar to life on Earth, different than life on Earth, or not at all?
- Is evolution required to reach “intelligence”? Could an advanced species simply originate that way?
- Does “intelligence” reflect the human-based definition, or is our definition different?
- Does the advancement of technology automatically follow intelligence? If so, what technology is required/desires for that particular life form on that particular planet?
- What are the life form’s motivations (individual or societal if societies even exist) and is technological advancement required or even related?

There are a whole lot of complete unknowns. And, if you assume all of them to favour one answer, you still get to the end where you’re left with having to assume the motivations of this highly specific life form you’ve dreamt up, and of course, some people default into “they want something similar to what we want.”

I find it fascinating anyway. It’s kind of fun that a take like “we could be the most techy species anywhere” is actually less human-centric and restricted to human-based logic and reasoning than something like “aliens are observing us and are much more advanced than we could ever be.” One supposes that the great potential of alien life could go far beyond our values and motivations, that it could defy our expectations entirely (is being “advanced” technologically even an accomplishment? or is it something only humans value or require? would our version of “advanced” or “technology” even apply to other species at all?). The other is basically “they’re just like humans but a lot better and further ahead,” which is entirely unimaginative and unlikely.
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Old 08-07-2022, 02:22 PM   #1168
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I personally hate Johnny-come-latelys that think they can jump in the middle of a thread and make judgments.
I dislike people who think they are teachers but are just lecturers.
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Old 08-11-2022, 10:39 PM   #1169
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https://startalkmedia.com/show/nucle...nd-brian-toon/

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Are advanced civilizations doomed to destroy themselves? On this episode, Neil deGrasse Tyson and co-host Chuck Nice explore the Cold War, The Drake Equation, and Carl Sagan’s work on the nuclear winter hypothesis with producer of Cosmos and Carl Sagan’s widow Ann Druyan and atmospheric scientist Brian Toon
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Old 08-12-2022, 11:07 AM   #1170
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This is cool, it appears the original photo for the Calvine UFO photo taken in the UK in 1990 has been revealed. There was a 'masked' recreation photo of it done that was already out, but the OG photo is now out:



This photo has been legendary in the UFO/UAP community for years, and the UK Government recently re-classified it not for release until 2076 (I believe).

More details here:

https://www.uapmedia.uk/articles/calvinerevealed
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Old 08-13-2022, 01:33 AM   #1171
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^^^ I'm convinced

Perspective

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Old 08-13-2022, 02:46 AM   #1172
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Pilot Fred Valentich mysteriously disappeared while flying in Australia, even to this day people don't know what happened exactly.

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Old 08-13-2022, 12:18 PM   #1173
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Pilot Fred Valentich mysteriously disappeared while flying in Australia, even to this day people don't know what happened exactly.
Valentich was a crappy pilot, twice rejected for the air force and twice failing all five commercial licence examination subjects.

It's a nice UFO story only because they never found him or his plane in the ocean.

A more plausible explanation is his lack of skills as a pilot doomed him.

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Some thought Valentich might have staged his disappearance, but the evidence does not support that hypothesis (Good 1988, 180). Nevertheless Valentich did
give two contradictory reasons for his flight to King Island: (1) to pick up some friends (as he told flight officials), or (2) to pick up crayfish.
However, these reasons were found to be untrue (Aircraft Accident 1982; “Valentich” 2013). Valentich had not even followed standard procedure to
inform King Island airport of his intent to land there (“Disappearance” 2013).

So what was Valentich really up to—in addition to wanting to log more hours of flying experience? Possibly he had decided to look for UFOs again but,
rather than admit that, offered others more legitimate-sounding reasons for his flight. In short, he may not simply have encountered a UFO but instead went
looking for one. If so, his “encounter” is not surprising. As a “True Believer,” observes Robert Sheaffer (2013, 27), Valentich was “probably inclined to
assume anything is a ‘UFO’ if he could not immediately identify it.”

So what did the young pilot see? Having clear skies, he described four bright lights that he mistakenly (as he later admitted) first thought were an
airplane’s “landing lights” (that is, white points of light). They were above him and—except for his own movements (more on this later)—seemed to be just
“hovering.” Then twice and quite correctly, he realized “it” was definitely “not an aircraft.”

As it happens, a computer search of the sky for the day, time, and place of Valentich’s flight reveals that the four points of bright light he would almost
certainly have seen were the following: Venus (which was at its very brightest), Mars, Mercury, and the bright star Antares. These four lights would have
represented a diamond shape, given the well-known tendency of viewers to “connect the dots,” and so could well have been perceived as an aircraft or UFO.
In fact, the striking conjunction was shaped as a vertically elongated diamond, thus explaining Valentich’s saying of the UFO that “it’s a long shape.”

As to the UFO’s other characteristics, the “metallic” or “shiny” appearance could have been due to the power of suggestion alone. Having connected the
dots, Valentich would likely have gone on to fill in the area as solid, even “metallic.” We must remember that Valentich’s impressions are those of someone
who was confused about what he was seeing.

The “green light” could have been part of this confusion also. Remember, Valentich’s first description of the UFO involved only four bright white lights;
he made no mention at that time of a green one. It could actually have been nothing more than the Cessna’s own navigation light on its right wing tip. That
green light—or its reflection on the windshield—could easily have been superimposed onto the UFO sighting.
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Old 08-14-2022, 09:01 PM   #1174
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^^^ I'm convinced



Perspective



That's 11,300,400,000 miles.

I'm lazy...can you google how many miles across the known universe is and then figure out what percentage of the universe our unrequested nudes has seen?

Probably a lot right?
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Old 08-14-2022, 09:37 PM   #1175
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Old 08-18-2022, 10:46 PM   #1176
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Life on Venus? New updates on the search

https://www.planetary.org/articles/l...us-new-updates

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Phosphine can be a byproduct of living things, so finding it in Venus’ clouds could possibly indicate something alive floating around the planet. Venus’ surface is inhospitable, but there are regions in the cloud decks where temperatures and pressures are similar to those found on Earth.

Astronomer and astrobiologist Jane Greaves led the team that announced the discovery of phosphine in the Venusian atmosphere in 2020.

If we confirm the existence of phosphine on Venus, does that mean we’ve found signs of life?

Unfortunately not. Until we are able to observe any possible Venus microbes directly — perhaps through sample return — the next step would be to rule out all non-life sources of the phosphine.
https://www.planetary.org/planetary-...enus-phosphine
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Old 08-23-2022, 09:05 AM   #1177
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Ok…so how the heck do I post videos here? I was recording the lightning storm last night, and caught on camera a flying object I cannot explain. Aliens man!
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Old 08-23-2022, 10:42 AM   #1178
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Ok…so how the heck do I post videos here? I was recording the lightning storm last night, and caught on camera a flying object I cannot explain. Aliens man!
Was it the Elon Musk's Skylink thing?

I saw it on Friday night and caught a video of it. It looked like a long glowing caterpillar in the sky. I thought it was Slither.io playing out in real life.

I was actually pretty psyched that I caught a real UAP on video, but then when I Googled it, I realized what it was. I hadn't heard of it before, so it was pretty jarring to see with no idea that it existed.
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Old 08-23-2022, 11:30 AM   #1179
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I uploaded it to Youtube...I didn't notice it at first, but there's actually two. First is at 3-4 seconds, and second at around 37 seconds. Can't be a shooting star b/c it's in front/under the clouds. Both in the top-left portion of the video.

https://youtu.be/533CqTpeFPg

If anyone can help with how to properly post YT videos please let me know lol.
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Old 08-23-2022, 11:39 AM   #1180
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Congress Admits UFOs Not ‘Man-Made,’ Says ‘Threats’ Increasing ‘Exponentially’

After years of revelations about strange lights in the sky, first hand reports from Navy pilots about UFOs, and governmental investigations, Congress seems to have admitted something startling in print: it doesn’t believe all UFOs are “man-made.”

Buried deep in a report that’s an addendum to the Intelligence Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2023, a budget that governs America’s clandestine services, Congress made two startling claims. The first is that “cross-domain transmedium threats to the United States national security are expanding exponentially.” The second is that it wants to distinguish between UFOs that are human in origin and those that are not: “Temporary nonattributed objects, or those that are positively identified as man-made after analysis, will be passed to appropriate offices and should not be considered under the definition as unidentified aerospace-undersea phenomena,” the document states.

The admission is stunning chiefly because, as more information about the U.S. government’s study of UFOs has become public, many politicians have stopped just short of claiming the unidentified objects were extraterrestrial or extradimensional in origin. The standard line is typically that, if UFOs exist, then they're likely advanced—although human-made—vehicles. Obama refused to confirm the existence of aliens but did say that people have seen a lot of strange stuff in the sky lately when asked directly on The Late Show with James Corden, for example. But now Congress seems to want to specifically distinguish between objects that are “man-made” and those that are not.
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