Age of consent laws aren't in place to tell children what they can and can't do, they are in place to tell adults what the can and can't do to children.
Exactly? In the scenario discussed, there was no child, by law and apparently societal norms.
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No, no…I’m not sloppy, or lazy. This is a sign of the boredom.
Exactly? In the scenario discussed, there was no child, by law and apparently societal norms.
Which scenario? The Bowie scenario took place in California. The two girls were 14. The age of consent there was 18. It is no defence to say you did not know how old they were. This is statutory rape.
As far as societal norms - if your 25 year old non-celebrity uncle did this to a 14 year old girl, wouldn't your family disown him?
Which scenario? The Bowie scenario took place in California. The two girls were 14. The age of consent there was 18. It is no defence to say you did not know how old they were. This is statutory rape.
As far as societal norms - if your 25 year old non-celebrity uncle did this to a 14 year old girl, wouldn't your family disown him?
Which scenario? The Bowie scenario took place in California. The two girls were 14. The age of consent there was 18. It is no defence to say you did not know how old they were. This is statutory rape.
As far as societal norms - if your 25 year old non-celebrity uncle did this to a 14 year old girl, wouldn't your family disown him?
The one told by AFC, in which buddy laid the boots to somebody for a similar thing. So not the Bowie thing, a completely different thing.
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No, no…I’m not sloppy, or lazy. This is a sign of the boredom.
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Old white men telling women they aren’t smart enough to make their own decisions and telling them what they can and can’t do with their bodies.
Oops, my bad, thought this was the abortion thread. Disregard.
Are you saying a 14 year old girl has the wherewithal to have complete sexual autonomy over her body? How young are you willing go with that statement? I can understand how she may have felt in control and has no regrets about it, but does that make Bowie and Page any less of a predator? Isn't the exact reason guys go after really young girls is because they are dumb and easy to manipulate? Page basically kept this girl hidden in his luggage, so it's hard for me to think this was all that acceptable at the time. I think 14 year olds getting married would be more acceptable in Page's grandparents time, but not his own.
I have no idea, it was tongue in cheek. It’s also a discussion that is far too emotionally charged to the point I don’t even think it’s worth having, at least not on CP.
Marilyn Manson is super duper famous, easily among the best known and most recognized musicians in the world, and has been that for a very long time. He's got multiple platinum albums, most of his albums have sold at least gold and been top 10 in the charts when those still mattered, he was a stadium-level live artist, and he's been very influential to other artists over the years. Rock stars don't get much bigger than him.
Step out of the 1990’s there is no mainstream anymore. Marilyn Manson is about as famous as Creed, or... “super duper famous”.
No one cares about him and when they look him up they will only be discussed by his filth, when they read one of his albums is titled “Smells like children”.
Everything you wrote you could literally say about Creed and it only proves you’re old, out of touch with reality or both.
Maybe turn down the Boys 2 Men albums and time travel to the present.
Step out of the 1990’s there is no mainstream anymore. Marilyn Manson is about as famous as Creed, or... “super duper famous”.
No one cares about him and when they look him up they will only be discussed by his filth, when they read one of his albums is titled “Smells like children”.
Everything you wrote you could literally say about Creed and it only proves you’re old, out of touch with reality or both.
Maybe turn down the Boys 2 Men albums and time travel to the present.
The nineties were over 21 years ago.
lol are you joking around? The Beatles were a while back, too, but it doesn't make them any less famous. Ever heard of Marilyn Munroe? I mean, just because he isn't selling out stadiums right now doesn't make anything Itse said less true. I'm pretty sure most people I know could pick Marilyn Manson out of a line-up and know his name, but there is no way on god's green earth anybody has a fataing clue what the Creed dope looks like unless you were an ultra-nerd who listened to the crappiest music ever in the 90s.
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I think the artist separation is a tough one, and it depends on the person's relationship to that artist's work.
My personal example/thoughts: Led Zeppelin had a huge impact on my teenage life and inspired my own music and artwork. It's pretty rare that their indiscretions cross my mind while listening to them, which I still do on the regular. Same with a lot of groups from that era, which I'm sure are littered with many of the same stories. Because I enjoyed and were influenced by them before I knew of the problems, I'm more numb to it, or possibly even "accepting" of it I guess.
I'm a filmmaker. I've never seen a Woody Allen movie. Never saw one before I heard of his past, and now I have no desire to watch one. I don't care that he may be a great filmmaker, there are a lot of those. I can take my lessons from others. On the flip side, I saw the Pianist before ever knowing anything about Roman Polanski and it's one of my favorites, and I watched Chinatown after learning about his past and it's also a favorite of mine. As a piece of art, it's almost made better as the ending feels all the more tragic and traumatic when you know Polanski's own child abuse issue. That doesn't mean that I don't think he's a piece of garbage as a person.
I dunno, I don't think we need to feel bad about absorbing art from flawed people. Artists are rarely stable minds and I don't look to them to be a moral center for anything, personally. But I also understand the need to shine a light on these events, even the ones that seem "okay" with context of time period. Hashing it out now is a way to say, "no it wasn't ever okay and we have to stop thinking that it was, because it will inevitably lead to people thinking it still is."
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Are you saying a 14 year old girl has the wherewithal to have complete sexual autonomy over her body? How young are you willing go with that statement? I can understand how she may have felt in control and has no regrets about it, but does that make Bowie and Page any less of a predator? Isn't the exact reason guys go after really young girls is because they are dumb and easy to manipulate? Page basically kept this girl hidden in his luggage, so it's hard for me to think this was all that acceptable at the time. I think 14 year olds getting married would be more acceptable in Page's grandparents time, but not his own.
Jerry Lee Lewis married his 13 year old cousin in 1957, now it did damage to his career because while it was completely acceptable in the Southern US it wasn't in the UK and Europe where his most ardent fan base was.
I realize if you are younger it is hard to understand how radically different society considers adulthood now from the 1960's and 70's, I grew up in an age when we all left school at 16 and went to work, you were considered an adult at 16 in the way we now view 19 year old's, you were expected to get married by 25 at the latest, there was something wrong with a 'woman' who wasnt engaged by 21 and married by 23, my Grandfather left school at 12 and started his apprenticeship and bemoaned the fact that I stayed in school until I was 18 to try and get into college, thought any education over 14 was just a waste of time brought on by those namby pamby leftists.
We just don't view teenagers that way anymore, a 16 year old leaving school and getting married now is wholly the stuff of weird religious cults and third world countries, it just wasnt in 1975 it was normal, that is why the age of consent was 16, that was when girls turned up in the workplace and were mixing with men as equals in the factories and offices
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As long as my consumption of the art doesn’t directly contribute to the artist’s ability to abuse, I don’t care.
So Jimmy Page, Bowie are both fine.
Polanski and Allen are not fine.
Even the sports song child molester guy. You know, the one they used in Joker and people were up in arms. is he earning money when I stream that song? He’s in jail until he dies right? So why do I care?
As long as my consumption of the art doesn’t directly contribute to the artist’s ability to abuse, I don’t care.
So Jimmy Page, Bowie are both fine.
Polanski and Allen are not fine.
Even the sports song child molester guy. You know, the one they used in Joker and people were up in arms. is he earning money when I stream that song? He’s in jail until he dies right? So why do I care?
lol are you joking around? The Beatles were a while back, too, but it doesn't make them any less famous. Ever heard of Marilyn Munroe? I mean, just because he isn't selling out stadiums right now doesn't make anything Itse said less true. I'm pretty sure most people I know could pick Marilyn Manson out of a line-up and know his name, but there is no way on god's green earth anybody has a fataing clue what the Creed dope looks like unless you were an ultra-nerd who listened to the crappiest music ever in the 90s.
I have never heard of Marilyn Munroe.
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Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993
Corporal Jean-Marc H. BECHARD, 6 Aug 1993
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sliver
Just ignore me...I'm in a mood today.
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Wes Borland of Limp Bizkit (and formerly of Manson's band):
"He’s not a great guy. And every single thing that people have said about him is ####ing true. So relax about the allegations towards the women. Like when people say these women are coming after him right now… #### off, they are speaking the truth.
"He is a bad ####ing guy, and I was there when he was with Evan Rachel Wood. I was at his house, it’s not ####ing cool, and that’s all I’m gonna say about it. So if anyone is coming after these girls and going like, ‘You blah blah blah blah blah, this and that,’ #### you! That’s all I’m gonna say.
As long as my consumption of the art doesn’t directly contribute to the artist’s ability to abuse, I don’t care.
So Jimmy Page, Bowie are both fine.
Polanski and Allen are not fine.
Even the sports song child molester guy. You know, the one they used in Joker and people were up in arms. is he earning money when I stream that song? He’s in jail until he dies right? So why do I care?
how does your watching a Polanski or Allen movie on TV directly contribute to their ability to abuse?
