High-Profile Sexual Abuse Epidemic

[AFireInside]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Manson’s ex’s were defending him? His ex’s have their own survivor’s support group. He also has as many staff that have made, non-anonymous, statements that corroborate Wood’s side of the story, compared to the one person who couldn’t get anybody to listen to them except for the entertainment-version of the Western Standard.

I'm not here to defend MM, as I lean toward him likely being guilty & I haven't followed the case super closely, but Rose McGowan and Dita Von Teese both said he wasn't that way with them.

Rose McGowan would be front and center if MM was this way at all with her, she was a big voice in the Metoo movement. She said she believes ERW, but that wasn't her experience.

There have been some sketchy things done by the Wood camp leading up to this as well. Doesn't mean she isn't telling the truth, or that MM is innocent, but trying to recruit "victims" to zoom meetings to discuss their experiences, and forging an FBI letter (if that is in fact true) in child custody cases etc, are not exactly good looks either.

On the flip side of that MM has numerous women/staff who have accused him, including women way before ERW ever said anything, so that looks REALLY bad for him, and points towards him being guilty.

Hard to imagine this many accusations having no merit.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

By the crew that actually directed and filmed the video. Did you even read the article? I bet you piled on Johnny Depp too when Heard made her allegations. If someone made a sexual assault allegation against you and you had witnesses that could provide you with a defense and we all called you a pos sexual abuser would you be ok with that? If we all shamed you and publically tried to ruin your life you would be ok with that too right? Even if you didn't do it it doesn't matter, you're guilty anyhow. That is your logic. His other ex gf's and his ex wife have said they have never seen that side of him. Why is that if he is like that? Here is the best part about people who think like you, of he wins his defamation case (and he almost certainly will) and they have no evidence these things took place except for a jilted ex trying to boost her career and a couple nobody groupies looking for a payout will you say you were wrong or will you just say that despite them not being able to prove it he obviously did it anyhow? I am betting on the latter. Why this pisses me off so much is it belittles women who are actual sexual abuse victims. Wood is a nutjob and her stories keep getting more and more unreal. He made her cook him breakfast after she had an abortion? Sure he did. The guy doesn't even eat breakfast, he sleeps all day. Like does that not sound a little unhinged?

The only defense that Manson has is they didnt have sex in the video, that's it, it isnt a defense to say 'yes she was as high as a kite but she wanted it' that stopped being a defense long before Manson was a gleam in Gary Numans eye and you have posted an article saying exactly that, that Manson had sex with her but that it was fine because she was really really high and flirty

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

The only defense that Manson has is they didnt have sex in the video, that's it, it isnt a defense to say 'yes she was as high as a kite but she wanted it' that stopped being a defense long before Manson was a gleam in Gary Numans eye and you have posted an article saying exactly that, that Manson had sex with her but that it was fine because she was really really high and flirty

Actually I posted an article that alleges it was her idea and not his and allegedly he didn't want to. Don't twist things to fit your narrative. Of course that clashes with what Manson's attorney is saying, that sex never happened at all. You can't make allegations accusing someone of horrible things without any proof and then drag their name through the mud by making a documentary about those things and not expect to be sued. The way she has turned this into a publicity circus whole coming up with new and crazy things constantly , some of which are pretty unbelievable even if you think MM is a creep ( for the record I think Manson is definitely disturbed). Unfortunately for him the image he created for himself to further his own career left him wide open to exactly what he is facing here.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

This is also interesting considering a judge ruled 12 of the 14 of Heard’s accusations had been proven to a civil standard.

Guess court doesn’t sway you either.

So now despite everything we now know about that case you are still going to bat for her? I can see no matter what you will always side with the alleged victim, even when the accused turns out to be exactly that. Real productive way of thinking.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

So now despite everything we now know about that case you are still going to bat for her? I can see no matter what you will always side with the alleged victim, even when the accused turns out to be exactly that. Real productive way of thinking.

What are you talking about? I’m not going to bat for anyone, I’m telling you what was decided in court. Are you saying Depp didn’t do any of the things he was accused of even though a judge said otherwise?

Also, can you please link to the other crew members you cited earlier? I’m not sure why you’re avoiding it.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by GGG

You appear to have decided he is innocent.

I think there is a kernel of truth from both parties here. I am sure Manson was not a good partner, I am sure he did some pretty weird stuff in his relationship with Wood. I also think she was young and infatuated with the famous bad boy and everything that happened probably happened with her consent. I am sure she regrets that time, is disgusted with herself for falling into that lifestyle at that time. I am not even condoning Manson having the relationship he did with her, he definitely took advantage of her age and his ability to manipulate her, no doubt. I just think Wood has turned this into a personal vendetta to destroy this man's life and I think she is definitely playing this up for monetary gain as well. I think these supposed ex's that were in actuality one night stands or flings or also in it for monetary gain. I think due to his image he is an easy target for this. I don't know if he is innocent any more than the posters jumping down my throat know he is guilty, we all have our opinions.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Actually I posted an article that alleges it was her idea and not his and allegedly he didn't want to. Don't twist things to fit your narrative. Of course that clashes with what Manson's attorney is saying, that sex never happened at all. You can't make allegations accusing someone of horrible things without any proof and then drag their name through the mud by making a documentary about those things and not expect to be sued. The way she has turned this into a publicity circus whole coming up with new and crazy things constantly , some of which are pretty unbelievable even if you think MM is a creep ( for the record I think Manson is definitely disturbed). Unfortunately for him the image he created for himself to further his own career left him wide open to exactly what he is facing here.

I don’t think what is happening has anything to do with the image MM cultivated for himself, and if it did, these allegations wouldn’t be coming out years after his peak when he’s basically a b-list celeb.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

What are you talking about? I’m not going to bat for anyone, I’m telling you what was decided in court. Are you saying Depp didn’t do any of the things he was accused of even though a judge said otherwise?

Also, can you please link to the other crew members you cited earlier? I’m not sure why you’re avoiding it.

No I can't because I am done on this subject with you. No matter what evidence eventually comes out you have decided the man is guilty. And since when do courts get it right every time? Courts screw up all the time. You want to believe Depp did all those things she accused him of, knock yourself out.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

No I can't because I am done on this subject with you. No matter what evidence eventually comes out you have decided the man is guilty. And since when do courts get it right every time? Courts screw up all the time. You want to believe Depp did all those things she accused him of, knock yourself out.

Or because you were lying, which calls into question why you would lie about an alleged sexual assault victim you don’t even know?

I’m actually totally open to whenever the truth lies, because I don’t personally care about Wood or Manson, I would just hope that the victim finds justice in either case. You on the other hand said this:

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I could be wrong, you could be wrong, let it play out in court.

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Again, let it play out in the courts.

But then when the courts don’t fall the way you want, you say they screw up all the time. Sounds like you’re the one who has already decided. And it seems like you struggle trusting believing women, even when it “plays out in court.” Kind of gross, tbh.

[nik-]

Find someone who loves you like dissentowner loves Marilyn Manson.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Or because you were lying, which calls into question why you would lie about an alleged sexual assault victim you don’t even know?

I’m actually totally open to whenever the truth lies, because I don’t personally care about Wood or Manson, I would just hope that the victim finds justice in either case. You on the other hand said this:





But then when the courts don’t fall the way you want, you say they screw up all the time. Sounds like you’re the one who has already decided. And it seems like you struggle trusting believing women, even when it “plays out in court.” Kind of gross, tbh.

Here is what Manson's lawyer said, multiple witnesses on the set. Pretty easy to assume that is cast and crew. So no I am not lying and your way of going about this has been pretty pathetic at best. You know what's gross, someone who has to cater to everyone accused of being a victim, pronouncing people guilty on allegations, all to try and win Captain Morals points in a message board. You do you though.
https://ew.com/movies/marilyn-manson...n-music-video/

[dissentowner]

At any rate I am going to step away from the thread. I have said my thoughts.

[Wormius]

What else would MM’s lawyers say?

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Actually I posted an article that alleges it was her idea and not his and allegedly he didn't want to. Don't twist things to fit your narrative. Of course that clashes with what Manson's attorney is saying, that sex never happened at all. You can't make allegations accusing someone of horrible things without any proof and then drag their name through the mud by making a documentary about those things and not expect to be sued. The way she has turned this into a publicity circus whole coming up with new and crazy things constantly , some of which are pretty unbelievable even if you think MM is a creep ( for the record I think Manson is definitely disturbed). Unfortunately for him the image he created for himself to further his own career left him wide open to exactly what he is facing here.

FFS!! it doesn't matter if it was her idea if she was high, when someone is high or drunk both the law and the basic concept of decency dictate that they aren't able to consent, that applies even if you are sure they want to have sex.

Not effing drunk or high women isnt just a case of if they are passed out, it also applies if they are sticking their tongue down your throat and grabbing your mini me

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

FFS!! it doesn't matter if it was her idea if she was high, when someone is high or drunk both the law and the basic concept of decency dictate that they aren't able to consent, that applies even if you are sure they want to have sex.

Not effing drunk or high women isnt just a case of if they are passed out, it also applies if they are sticking their tongue down your throat and grabbing your mini me

Lmao, so you are telling us that you have never had sex with a girl that was drunk or high? I call BS. By what you just said the majority of this board has probably had unconsential sex with a girl, wife, or gf. Now if she says stop at any time then that is different but what you are spewing is quite frankly ridiculous.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Here is what Manson's lawyer said, multiple witnesses on the set. Pretty easy to assume that is cast and crew. So no I am not lying and your way of going about this has been pretty pathetic at best. You know what's gross, someone who has to cater to everyone accused of being a victim, pronouncing people guilty on allegations, all to try and win Captain Morals points in a message board. You do you though.
https://ew.com/movies/marilyn-manson...n-music-video/

Interesting, here’s what you said:

Originally Posted by dissentowner

She says he sexually raped her during a video that multiple people who were on set have stated is simply not true.

Here’s what the lawyer said:

Of all the false claims that Evan Rachel Wood has made about Brian Warner, her imaginative retelling of the making of the 'Heart-Shaped Glasses' music video 15 years ago is the most brazen and easiest to disprove, because there were multiple witnesses.

Pretty easy to tell the difference, no? It doesn’t say what any witness has stated, simply that witnesses existed in the first place.

Also kind of interesting you brought up the lawyer. So, the lawyer said it was easy to disprove because there were witnesses, and you have taken that as fact, yeah? So then there’s this quote by the lawyer:

Evan was not only fully coherent and engaged during the three-day shoot but also heavily involved in weeks of pre-production planning and days of post-production editing of the final cut. The simulated sex scene took several hours to shoot with multiple takes using different angles and several long breaks in between camera setups. Brian did not have sex with Evan on that set, and she knows that is the truth.

But here’s you talking about “the truth” coming out:

The truth is coming out.
POPTOPIC: It was Evan Rachel Wood's idea to have REAL sex in Manson video.

In reference to this:

The entire time she was high as a kite, kept flirting with other crew. She was trying to get under his skin. Then, when it came to the sex scene, it was HER IDEA to do it for real. Manson was visibly uncomfortable with this. Despite what you see on stage and on camera, he’s a huge romantic. He wasn’t really comfortable with f**cking his 20-year-old girlfriend in front of a bunch of people — he was very protective of her.

So which is it? The lawyer is telling the truth and she was coherent and no sex was had? Or what you called the truth, which is that she was high as a kite and the real sex, which happened, was all her idea?

You can go on about “captain morals” or whatever makes you feel better all you want, it’s boring and makes you look like you can’t sustain a conversation with adults, but honestly go on if you have to. But I’m more interested in trying to follow your logic here. Because as I said, I’m fine with the truth being whatever it is. There are no stakes for me, I’m not a fan of either of these people and whoever the guilty party is should feel the full force of the law. But you seem dead set on stretching the truth, ad libbing, and contracting yourself as you tie yourself in knots trying to ensure the woman comes off like the villain and the man comes off as the victim. Why?

You can pull the “they’ll be guilty in your eyes no matter what!” hand waving shtick 100 more times if you want, but you’re the only one convinced it’s covering the fact that you’re the only one with their mind made up. This is the clearest example of projection I’ve ever seen on this board. First we let it play out in court, then the courts are flawed, first multiple witnesses state the sex didn’t happen, then the TRUTH comes out and it DID but it was HER doing.

When even things that contradict each other are “the truth” so long as they favour one side, you make it pretty clear you’ve picked a side. But runaway from the thread you bumped I guess. Thanks for letting everyone know this important info.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Lmao, so you are telling us that you have never had sex with a girl that was drunk or high? I call BS. By what you just said the majority of this board has probably had unconsential sex with a girl, wife, or gf. Now if she says stop at any time then that is different but what you are spewing is quite frankly ridiculous.

wtf

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Lmao, so you are telling us that you have never had sex with a girl that was drunk or high? I call BS. By what you just said the majority of this board has probably had unconsential sex with a girl, wife, or gf. Now if she says stop at any time then that is different but what you are spewing is quite frankly ridiculous.

No I have never had sex with a woman who was drunk or high, my grandfather drilled that into me in the 1960's, maybe he was an outlier, maybe it was that he only had one kid, my mum but he was clear with me, you dont sleep with drunk girls, you get them home safe, that's your duty as a man, a man that sleeps with drunk girls is a creepy ######bag, I'm 60 now and one of the things I'm kind of proud of is that as I look back on my decades of horn dog behaviour I never shagged any woman were I wasnt 100% clear she was making an informed choice.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I think there is a kernel of truth from both parties here. I am sure Manson was not a good partner, I am sure he did some pretty weird stuff in his relationship with Wood. I also think she was young and infatuated with the famous bad boy and everything that happened probably happened with her consent. I am sure she regrets that time, is disgusted with herself for falling into that lifestyle at that time. I am not even condoning Manson having the relationship he did with her, he definitely took advantage of her age and his ability to manipulate her, no doubt. I just think Wood has turned this into a personal vendetta to destroy this man's life and I think she is definitely playing this up for monetary gain as well. I think these supposed ex's that were in actuality one night stands or flings or also in it for monetary gain. I think due to his image he is an easy target for this. I don't know if he is innocent any more than the posters jumping down my throat know he is guilty, we all have our opinions.

So you believe that MM abused her just not in the way ERW has said she was abused and that said abuse was not criminal in nature.

That is a ridiculously specific belief that doesn’t seem to be based in a presumption of innocence that you were advocating earlier.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Lmao, so you are telling us that you have never had sex with a girl that was drunk or high? I call BS. By what you just said the majority of this board has probably had unconsential sex with a girl, wife, or gf. Now if she says stop at any time then that is different but what you are spewing is quite frankly ridiculous.

Wow.