Let's talk about Cryptocurrencies

[GGG]

Which claim would you like people to accept

That crypto will play a role in the future financial system? I don’t think there is much dispute
That Bitcoin will? - you need to answer why the substitution affect won’t undermine its long term value
That Bitcoin due to limited supply will be worth 1000x the market cap of gold - that’s going to take a lot more evidence
That Bitcoin will replace gold as the inflationary hedge you would need similar volitily to gold over a longer period time.

What would it take for you to acknowledge how highly uncertain your predictions are?

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Yoho

Honest question what will it take for people to finally say yes Bitcoin and crypto is for real and will play a major role in the future financial world we live in?

When it takes over the market cap of Apple? Gold? the US dollar?

I’m looking forward to this thread when every second post isn’t dedicated to trying to find the endless flaws of Bitcoin or Crypto. And we can focus on what the amazing future and trends of crypto look like

Remember it’s not Dino7c’s job to convince you about Bitcoin or anything else, it gets tiring page after page constantly defending something that needs no defence.

If you don’t want to get into it that’s fine but I’m looking forward to when it’s not “well what about if this happens then your screwed”

Or if someone posts something positive about Bitcoin in the (Let’s talk about Crypto thread) the snap “fanboy” responses come out.

We could be talking about so many awesome projects in the crypto space like Vechain for example instead, we are constantly mired in the most basic tribal debates over Bitcoins eventual failure or success.

I mean 90% of your contributions are reposting tweets by Bitcoin masturbators trying to inflate the value of their personal coffers, and the other 10% are referring to any other blockchain initiative with token offerings as "####coins".

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

I mean 90% of your contributions are reposting tweets by Bitcoin masturbators trying to inflate the value of their personal coffers, and the other 10% are referring to any other blockchain initiative with token offerings as "####coins".

Your tone and speech are so juvenile don’t be shocked when posters snap back at you.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by GGG

Which claim would you like people to accept

That crypto will play a role in the future financial system? I don’t think there is much dispute
That Bitcoin will? - you need to answer why the substitution affect won’t undermine its long term value
That Bitcoin due to limited supply will be worth 1000x the market cap of gold - that’s going to take a lot more evidence
That Bitcoin will replace gold as the inflationary hedge you would need similar volitily to gold over a longer period time.

What would it take for you to acknowledge how highly uncertain your predictions are?

I agree but they are not my predictions. I like sharing from a broad range of people who have been in the crypto market and already saw predicted forecasts come to fruition, doesn’t guarantee future will unfold I acknowledge.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by yoho

your tone and speech are so juvenile don’t be shocked when posters snap back at you.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1298041167628480512

https://twitter.com/user/status/1298057008625549312

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by Yoho

I agree but they are not my predictions. I like sharing from a broad range of people who have been in the crypto market and already saw predicted forecasts come to fruition, doesn’t guarantee future will unfold I acknowledge.

What if those broad range of people who are heavily into crypto also speak of potential risks, bubbles & price fluctuations?
Are we allowed to talk about that then?

A lot of these crypto experts believe in long term growth but also acknowledge we are likely in a bubble that will pull back and remain volatile.

[topfiverecords]

I'm heavily invested in crypto and I don't believe much of it is going to go anywhere useful.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Yoho

Honest question what will it take for people to finally say yes Bitcoin and crypto is for real and will play a major role in the future financial world we live in?

When it takes over the market cap of Apple? Gold? the US dollar?

I’m looking forward to this thread when every second post isn’t dedicated to trying to find the endless flaws of Bitcoin or Crypto. And we can focus on what the amazing future and trends of crypto look like

Remember it’s not Dino7c’s job to convince you about Bitcoin or anything else, it gets tiring page after page constantly defending something that needs no defence.

If you don’t want to get into it that’s fine but I’m looking forward to when it’s not “well what about if this happens then your screwed”

Or if someone posts something positive about Bitcoin in the (Let’s talk about Crypto thread) the snap “fanboy” responses come out.

We could be talking about so many awesome projects in the crypto space like Vechain for example instead, we are constantly mired in the most basic tribal debates over Bitcoins eventual failure or success.

I cant speak for anyone else but my basic issue with crypto and bitcoin specifically are pretty simple, a currency and an investment are two very different things, no one in their right mind would put all their money into the Swiss Franc expecting it double triple or quad its value in the next few years and pay off their mortgage, a functional currency cant do that, it would cease to be useful as a currency if it did which is bitcoins problem, it isnt a currency anymore, it used to be but it isnt now, people are buying bitcoin, they aint buying things with bitcoin, they would be mad to, bitcoin is just an investment now, that is all you and Dino see it as, how high will it go is all you care about.

As an investment there is no reason for its rise in price other than investor belief and that isnt going to sustain it, just about every single person in the world that owns Bitcoin right now is trying to work out when to sell it, that is the nature of belief based investments.

As to crypto itself, I can see in some limited areas a universally accepted digital currency could be handy, the third world, drug dealing etc.
I say limited though because on the whole I think 'money', dollars pounds etc work pretty well already, I dont think there is this vast problem with it that crypto is going to solve, I havnt noticed any issues with the Canadian dollar in my day to day life that I need to fix, I get paid, I buy things, banks happily lend it, if I buy a house I know the price of the house in 6 months when I take possession and the money is exchanged is pretty much the same as it is now when I agree on the price, what vast issue with money is there that crypto of any sort is supposed to solve?

The idea that there needs to be a vast sea of millions of power hungry computers chugging away all over the world using ever greater amounts of power just to keep track of me buying an O Henry bar down the gas station when regular money just needs a single cheaply made piece of paper or a single bank computer and a debit card to achieve exactly the same result seems absurd to me, it seems to me like an incredibly complicated Rube Goldberg solution to a problem money has already solved quite nicely and elegantly already

[Leondros]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I cant speak for anyone else but my basic issue with crypto and bitcoin specifically are pretty simple, a currency and an investment are two very different things, no one in their right mind would put all their money into the Swiss Franc expecting it double triple or quad its value in the next few years and pay off their mortgage, a functional currency cant do that, it would cease to be useful as a currency if it did which is bitcoins problem, it isnt a currency anymore, it used to be but it isnt now, people are buying bitcoin, they aint buying things with bitcoin, they would be mad to, bitcoin is just an investment now, that is all you and Dino see it as, how high will it go is all you care about.

As an investment there is no reason for its rise in price other than investor belief and that isnt going to sustain it, just about every single person in the world that owns Bitcoin right now is trying to work out when to sell it, that is the nature of belief based investments.

As to crypto itself, I can see in some limited areas a universally accepted digital currency could be handy, the third world, drug dealing etc.
I say limited though because on the whole I think 'money', dollars pounds etc work pretty well already, I dont think there is this vast problem with it that crypto is going to solve, I havnt noticed any issues with the Canadian dollar in my day to day life that I need to fix, I get paid, I buy things, banks happily lend it, if I buy a house I know the price of the house in 6 months when I take possession and the money is exchanged is pretty much the same as it is now when I agree on the price, what vast issue with money is there that crypto of any sort is supposed to solve?

The idea that there needs to be a vast sea of millions of power hungry computers chugging away all over the world using ever greater amounts of power just to keep track of me buying an O Henry bar down the gas station when regular money just needs a single cheaply made piece of paper or a single bank computer and a debit card to achieve exactly the same result seems absurd to me, it seems to me like an incredibly complicated Rube Goldberg solution to a problem money has already solved quite nicely and elegantly already

This is exactly the issue though. This illustrates how uneducated people are on the whole crypto currency and blockchain buzz. All you can talk about at a high level why you think it will fail because you think its just designed to replace fiat currency. Its not, and that's not where its value lies.

If you want to dig deeper into it there are a number of decent books out there like 'Blockchain Revolution' and 'Cryptoassets: The Innovative Investor's Guide to Bitcoin and Beyond'. The value doesn't lie with cryptocurrency as a stash of value in my opinion. We can argue all day about that and clearly its been discussed at length and has gotten nowhere. The value in my opinion is in the alternative coins and not as an investment but as a proof of concept. VeChain was mentioned here and everyone knows about Ethereum and its smart contract capability.

VeChain is super exciting and is getting a lot of traction through its partnerships with the likes of PwC, Grant Thornton, BMW, and Walmart to name a few. They are exploring ways on the blockchain to solve problems with supply chain logistics and tracking data. Cyprus has already been utilizing this particular crypto asset to track vaccination records. If you could get systems self validating vaccination records and tracking it across borders think of the power in that.

This is just one example of the thousands that are currently in their infancy. I do not necessarily believe that crypto currency is going to replace gold or fiat currency but I have seen first hand people making a lot of money off of it because they believe in the technology. If that's the biproduct of that so be it. I think there are some decent cases as to why Bitcoin is attractive and do own some, but what excites me more is the technology and innovation the blockchain technology is pushing forward.

[Winsor_Pilates]

The stuff around NFTs and DeFi is very interesting too.
There was some chatter about it on the other jpg sale thread but very little in here.

Maybe we can all put some effort into putting this thread to good use and stop arguing about Bitcoin specifically.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Leondros

This is exactly the issue though. This illustrates how uneducated people are on the whole crypto currency and blockchain buzz. All you can talk about at a high level why you think it will fail because you think its just designed to replace fiat currency. Its not, and that's not where its value lies.

If you want to dig deeper into it there are a number of decent books out there like 'Blockchain Revolution' and 'Cryptoassets: The Innovative Investor's Guide to Bitcoin and Beyond'. The value doesn't lie with cryptocurrency as a stash of value in my opinion. We can argue all day about that and clearly its been discussed at length and has gotten nowhere. The value in my opinion is in the alternative coins and not as an investment but as a proof of concept. VeChain was mentioned here and everyone knows about Ethereum and its smart contract capability.

VeChain is super exciting and is getting a lot of traction through its partnerships with the likes of PwC, Grant Thornton, BMW, and Walmart to name a few. They are exploring ways on the blockchain to solve problems with supply chain logistics and tracking data. Cyprus has already been utilizing this particular crypto asset to track vaccination records. If you could get systems self validating vaccination records and tracking it across borders think of the power in that.

This is just one example of the thousands that are currently in their infancy. I do not necessarily believe that crypto currency is going to replace gold or fiat currency but I have seen first hand people making a lot of money off of it because they believe in the technology. If that's the biproduct of that so be it. I think there are some decent cases as to why Bitcoin is attractive and do own some, but what excites me more is the technology and innovation the blockchain technology is pushing forward.

well if we were talking about how blockchain might revolutionise the shipping industry I would agree, but we aren't, we are talking about how much money you can make off Bitcoin, that's this whole conversation, and again I will repeat myself, there is no connection between the value of Bitcoin and the potential efficacy of blockchain anymore than there is no connection between the value of Studebaker or Ford as a car compony and how useful cars are and no one in their right mind is buying Bitcoin in order to support blockchain technology, they are buying it as an investment.

I would also ask you something that has bugged me some, does every application of blockchain require vast numbers of computers to function?

[Leondros]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

well if we were talking about how blockchain might revolutionise the shipping industry I would agree, but we aren't, we are talking about how much money you can make off Bitcoin, that's this whole conversation, and again I will repeat myself, there is no connection between the value of Bitcoin and the potential efficacy of blockchain anymore than there is no connection between the value of Studebaker or Ford as a car compony and how useful cars are and no one in their right mind is buying Bitcoin in order to support blockchain technology, they are buying it as an investment.

I would also ask you something that has bugged me some, does every application of blockchain require vast numbers of computers to function?

I think you have to define vast - but regardless the answer is they can be more efficient. The answer is the difference between PoW (Proof of Work) and PoS (Proof of Stake). Proof of Work has thousands and thousands of computers running the same chain which is super inefficient and energy intesnive. The new PoS model chooses random computers to do the computations and validate the chain streamlining the whole process.

[Leondros]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

well if we were talking about how blockchain might revolutionise the shipping industry I would agree, but we aren't, we are talking about how much money you can make off Bitcoin, that's this whole conversation, and again I will repeat myself, there is no connection between the value of Bitcoin and the potential efficacy of blockchain anymore than there is no connection between the value of Studebaker or Ford as a car compony and how useful cars are and no one in their right mind is buying Bitcoin in order to support blockchain technology, they are buying it as an investment.

I would also ask you something that has bugged me some, does every application of blockchain require vast numbers of computers to function?

This is a bit loaded - no one is buying Bitcoin for its potential efficacy but people sure as hell are buying alternative coins due to the speculation that they will be the dominant technology for certain applications going forward. People are betting on alternative coins because they think as they are adopted by large organizations who are utilizing the assets that they will appreciate in value.

A perfect example was one crypto asset I was excited about in 2017 - IOTA. IOTA is a cryptocurrency designed to operate as the backbone of the Internet of Things economy. IOTA was designed to offer a solution to this problem by creating a fee-free cryptocurrency that can operate on all devices that produce data.

This asset was scalable and was fee less. This kind of goes down the rapid hole on crypto but it doesn't really use a blockchain but uses an alternative - a tangle. Again, this technology is tied to the Internet of Things and if that takes off so will IOTA as IOTA can be used to facilitate data between devices (ie. how long a particular light is on or how often AC is used) and then can be sold as data to corporations.

So is that a particular good investment? It can absolutely be because IOTA is finite - there is only 2,779,530,283,277,761 tokens that will be appreciating in value as they are needed.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Leondros

This is exactly the issue though. This illustrates how uneducated people are on the whole crypto currency and blockchain buzz. All you can talk about at a high level why you think it will fail because you think its just designed to replace fiat currency. Its not, and that's not where its value lies.

If you want to dig deeper into it there are a number of decent books out there like 'Blockchain Revolution' and 'Cryptoassets: The Innovative Investor's Guide to Bitcoin and Beyond'. The value doesn't lie with cryptocurrency as a stash of value in my opinion. We can argue all day about that and clearly its been discussed at length and has gotten nowhere. The value in my opinion is in the alternative coins and not as an investment but as a proof of concept. VeChain was mentioned here and everyone knows about Ethereum and its smart contract capability.

VeChain is super exciting and is getting a lot of traction through its partnerships with the likes of PwC, Grant Thornton, BMW, and Walmart to name a few. They are exploring ways on the blockchain to solve problems with supply chain logistics and tracking data. Cyprus has already been utilizing this particular crypto asset to track vaccination records. If you could get systems self validating vaccination records and tracking it across borders think of the power in that.

This is just one example of the thousands that are currently in their infancy. I do not necessarily believe that crypto currency is going to replace gold or fiat currency but I have seen first hand people making a lot of money off of it because they believe in the technology. If that's the biproduct of that so be it. I think there are some decent cases as to why Bitcoin is attractive and do own some, but what excites me more is the technology and innovation the blockchain technology is pushing forward.

All of those technologies seem incredibly interesting and very valid to argue on side of their use case. Those technologies, I assume could exist though outside of a financial tie to a currency. Is the currency sector of the tech just the financial carrot to get the community to fund the equipment, labour and utilities to operate the system?

Though I admit there are many variations here I haven’t researched too deeply, but I wonder how a transitory currency and a specialized utility tech gain enough mainstream traction for the currency to have necessary liquidity to be useful. Otherwise it’s closed loop servers performing tasks that just happen to be spread around the globe as opposed to held privately in a server farm.

[Leondros]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

All of those technologies seem incredibly interesting and very valid to argue on side of their use case. Those technologies, I assume could exist though outside of a financial tie to a currency. Is the currency sector of the tech just the financial carrot to get the community to fund the equipment, labour and utilities to operate the system?

Though I admit there are many variations here I haven’t researched too deeply, but I wonder how a transitory currency and a specialized utility tech gain enough mainstream traction for the currency to have necessary liquidity to be useful. Otherwise it’s closed loop servers performing tasks that just happen to be spread around the globe as opposed to held privately in a server farm.

It is a risk for sure. Once a proof of concept exists its possible that these organizations hire their own developers to piggy back off of the technology. However, given this is in infancy its fair to assume that until the proof of concept is obtained these corporate sponsors will be working with the community to fine tune them and demand for the assets will be maintained.

[Winsor_Pilates]

I listened to this Kevin Rose podcast this morning and found it quite interesting.
https://podcast.kevinrose.com/nfts-b...new-podcast-1/

I like how Kevin is trying to explain this stuff in a way anyone can grasp and isn't looking like some of the crypo salesman we keep seeing.

The stuff around digital collectables definitely has something to it. I can see that expanding a lot and stuff like ownership rights to online art becoming the norm.

[Raekwon]

You can now buy a Tesla with Bitcoin

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/...446063105?s=21

[Yoho]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1374412469095989253

[karl262]

Does anyone have any experience with burstcoin? I've always thought it seemed like an interesting blockchain and its been around for years. I think they use a proof of capacity algorithm or something and miners only contribute free hard drive space. Way greener than proof of work obviously, maybe more than proof of stake too?

Sent from my SM-G973W using Tapatalk

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by karl262

Does anyone have any experience with burstcoin? I've always thought it seemed like an interesting blockchain and its been around for years. I think they use a proof of capacity algorithm or something and miners only contribute free hard drive space. Way greener than proof of work obviously, maybe more than proof of stake too?

Sent from my SM-G973W using Tapatalk

I've hosted 8-16 TB for Storj for the last 2 years and it's a similar deal as Burst. It's definitely greener, uses pretty minimal CPU and is more or less dependent on your up/down speeds and empty drive capacity.

Not a massive return (I've made a bit over 2000 Storj tokens in ~700 days of uptime) but it did jump this week so that's nice. Cost of HDD space vs video cards though I suppose from a hardware return, it's quite good.