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Old 01-14-2022, 04:52 PM   #1961
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Those boosters are not stopping the spread. Itís wishful thinking. They might reduce severity, and of course thatís something, but itís still spreading.

And truthfully, I know itís anecdotal and YMMV, but I got Covid with no booster, my got Covid with the booster. We were both just as sick as one another and seem to have had virtually the same experience with it overall. Was the booster effective for her? No idea, but in practice it seems to have been negligible.
Well the Harvard study I posted above says it does prevent infection, so I'll take that over your 2 person anecdote. Your "other person"(sorry, seems you dropped a word) could have ended up in the hospital without the booster, you don't know what it would have been like without it. So you can't claim it did nothing.
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Old 01-14-2022, 05:48 PM   #1962
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Ok, what’s the scientific definition of infection? Small amounts of virus that enter the body, and the primed immune system immediately attacks, vs greater amounts that cause mild symptoms. At what point is exposure not an infection or becomes one? Is it when one virus infects one cell? Looking for scientific specifics if anyone knows, not opinions.
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Old 01-14-2022, 06:08 PM   #1963
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Colds are 85% rhinoviruses. SARS and MERS are coronaviruses, are we all going to get those too?

Is COVID19 going to end up like the few common cold coronaviruses or like SARS.. who knows?
We are well past the point of it dying out. It has transferred into dogs cats and deer. So we are going to see continuous infection of some kind forever.
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Old 01-14-2022, 06:18 PM   #1964
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Ok, whatís the scientific definition of infection? Small amounts of virus that enter the body, and the primed immune system immediately attacks, vs greater amounts that cause mild symptoms. At what point is exposure not an infection or becomes one? Is it when one virus infects one cell? Looking for scientific specifics if anyone knows, not opinions.
Essentially, infection is the acquisition of a microbe which is identifiable through clinical illness, testing (e.g. PCR or antigen in the case of COVID), or through a detectable immune response (rise in antibodies). So an immune person who encounters the virus but whose body neutralizes it before it can take hold would not meet that standard.

Asymptomatic infections would, but the data makes it pretty clear that simply being exposed to the virus doesn't result in an appreciable immune response. Pre-Omicron, vaccinated or previously infected people became infected at a vastly reduced rate compared to immunologically naive people. But in serosurveys, those vaccianted/recovered who didn't subsequently get infected normally had fairly predictable drops in antibody response over time. If exposure to SARS-CoV-2 was enough to spur a notably increased antibody response, that would show up in that data with some having people random increases in antibodies (particularly against the N protein, which isn't generated by vaccination).
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Old 01-14-2022, 06:25 PM   #1965
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One thing I think about often is how much the pandemic has expanded our knowledge of infectious disease and specifically the lay public's knowledge. Now that people are more aware of all the things that can go wrong with both infections and vaccinations, it seems to have impacted how we interact with everything and even if COVID left tomorrow, there'll be artifacts forever.

How many people will use hand sanitizer now forever? Wear masks when sick? Avoid air travel? Avoid cruises? Avoid crowded spaces? How many businesses will continue to offer and promote hygiene theatre? Some of these changes will be good, but there'll be bad consequences too.

Conversely, now that people have seen vaccines can really cause blood clots and other potentially serious issues, how many will be unable to properly assess risk and avoid important vaccines? We don't think about these risks when eating a peanut butter sandwich, but a list of potential side effects without context would likely change that for some. I fear that too much information may make the future tricky for many when it comes to risk assessments
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Old 01-14-2022, 06:33 PM   #1966
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We are well past the point of it dying out. It has transferred into dogs cats and deer. So we are going to see continuous infection of some kind forever.
Sorry, I won't be able to come into work today. I am a close contact to a positive deer.
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Old 01-14-2022, 06:53 PM   #1967
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Well the Harvard study I posted above says it does prevent infection, so I'll take that over your 2 person anecdote. Your "other person"(sorry, seems you dropped a word) could have ended up in the hospital without the booster, you don't know what it would have been like without it. So you can't claim it did nothing.
I'm not seeing any benefit of boosters in our family yet but of course purely anecdotal. Son got COVID last Friday, I started getting symptoms and tested positive yesterday. He wasn't boosted as they just opened it for his age last week. I was boosted 21 days ago, so should be peak protection, you'd think.

13 yo has been hiding from us in his room this week and no booster and about 6-7 months from his second shot is good so far. My wife who was boosted about 15 days ago, and is good so far and tested negative today. She's stayed away from son, while I was around him a lot more.

Symptoms have been moderate for my son and I.
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Old 01-14-2022, 07:03 PM   #1968
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https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/sto...r-study-finds/

So ya, why are we all "guaranteed" to get it?
So what, I’m good for about ten weeks? And then what? Do I need another booster? I think it’s highly unlikely that people will get booster shots every 10 weeks. Honestly it all just sounds ridiculous.

Who knows what impact that could have.

Anecdotal I know, but I’ve known at least 30 people in my work and in my friends circle who have not been boosted, but got COVID and it was mostly harmless. It’ll be hard to convince those people that they should keep getting boosters unless of course another more dangerous variant prevalent.
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Old 01-14-2022, 07:09 PM   #1969
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Here's Calgary and Edmonton's poop data who think they are magically going to escape getting Covid somehow and can wait for an Omicron booster, or that people with sniffles really don't have covid.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1482137588198641665?t=44G2TeEFQs7YPMvKly3zzQ&s=19

The poop data doesn't lie, this crap is quite literally everywhere
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Old 01-14-2022, 07:17 PM   #1970
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https://www.businessinsider.com/covi...-us-2022-1?amp

Boston poop data started moving on Dec 1st and has peaked looks like mid December or so for ours. 1-2 weeks to go.
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Old 01-14-2022, 07:20 PM   #1971
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So what, I’m good for about ten weeks? And then what? Do I need another booster? I think it’s highly unlikely that people will get booster shots every 10 weeks. Honestly it all just sounds ridiculous.

Who knows what impact that could have.

Anecdotal I know, but I’ve known at least 30 people in my work and in my friends circle who have not been boosted, but got COVID and it was mostly harmless. It’ll be hard to convince those people that they should keep getting boosters unless of course another more dangerous variant prevalent.
I don’t understand this thought process.

Why did they bother getting vaccinated if 30 people get Covid in general maybe 1 of them would have gotten fairly sick. I haven’t been in a car accident in over 10 years and the last one I was in a seat belt wouldn’t have mattered. Yet I still wear a seatbelt.

We have done such a poor job of communicating relative risk.
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Old 01-14-2022, 07:21 PM   #1972
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So what, Iím good for about ten weeks? And then what? Do I need another booster? I think itís highly unlikely that people will get booster shots every 10 weeks. Honestly it all just sounds ridiculous.
The current vaccines target a more than 2 year old variant. Obviously one that targets Omicron would last longer because if you have antibodies that can directly target the variant you don't need as many of them (so they can wane further while still being effective). Based on the antibody half-life against other variants, a proper booster for Omicron will probably be capable of offering significant protection against Omicron infection for 8-12 months.

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Anecdotal I know, but Iíve known at least 30 people in my work and in my friends circle who have not been boosted, but got COVID and it was mostly harmless. Itíll be hard to convince those people that they should keep getting boosters unless of course another more dangerous variant prevalent.
Younger healthier people who have had minor breakthrough infections likely don't need boosters anytime soon. However an older or more vulnerable person who hasn't been infected likely should get vaccinated regularly to protect against infection. And despite what many people seem to be claiming, vaccination absolutely protects against infection.
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Old 01-14-2022, 07:42 PM   #1973
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Here's Calgary and Edmonton's poop data who think they are magically going to escape getting Covid somehow and can wait for an Omicron booster, or that people with sniffles really don't have covid.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1482137588198641665?t=44G2TeEFQs7YPMvKly3zzQ&s=19

The poop data doesn't lie, this crap is quite literally everywhere
And yet it has already peaked in many places and is now dropping. BC's wastewater peaked over a week ago and the latest readings were about 1/2 of the peak.

And the attack rate doesn't look ridiculously high. If you take incidental hospital admissions as a rough correlate for attack rates, then about 3-5% of BC's population would be an active case (~3% of non-COVID caused hospitalizations have tested positive, but I'd assume the general population rate would be higher).
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Old 01-14-2022, 07:55 PM   #1974
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We are well past the point of it dying out. It has transferred into dogs cats and deer. So we are going to see continuous infection of some kind forever.
This Professor of Evolution and Genomics from the University of Oxford does not believe that animals are a serious problem.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1479826065728098309
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Old 01-14-2022, 09:00 PM   #1975
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Just stay away from the deer bars.
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Old 01-15-2022, 03:53 AM   #1976
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The current vaccines target a more than 2 year old variant. Obviously one that targets Omicron would last longer because if you have antibodies that can directly target the variant you don't need as many of them (so they can wane further while still being effective). Based on the antibody half-life against other variants, a proper booster for Omicron will probably be capable of offering significant protection against Omicron infection for 8-12 months.


Younger healthier people who have had minor breakthrough infections likely don't need boosters anytime soon. However an older or more vulnerable person who hasn't been infected likely should get vaccinated regularly to protect against infection. And despite what many people seem to be claiming, vaccination absolutely protects against infection.

So this is my point. Boosters against omicron should be targeted most at need. Also first doses in the third world should be the global priority.

GGG made a comment about seatbelts. My comment there is that seatbelts have an almost zero risk impact to people using them whereas you cannot say the same about the current generation of vaccines. If you’re someone who should be healthy and had been vaccinated fully without the booster, and you’ve gone through an omicron infection, why would you bother with a booster?

I think the medical guidance should be particular based on your personal situation. Blanket vaccine mandates etc are not supported by the science especially if your healthy. The other critical aspect is that previous infection is likely better than a booster especially from a vaccine mandate compliance perspective (eg. Travelling on a plane). I think it’s hilarious that someone thinks their safe boarding a plane because people are vaccinated considering with Omicron it really doesn’t mean anything. The fact that our current policy isn’t based on science and doesn’t respect and acknowledge natural immunity really calls into question why we shouldn’t trust “the experts”

I would feel comfortable on a plane If everyone can prove a negative test. Vaccination is irrelevant with omicron.

Last edited by ikaris; 01-15-2022 at 04:00 AM.
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Old 01-15-2022, 03:58 AM   #1977
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Younger healthier people who have had minor breakthrough infections likely don't need boosters anytime soon. However an older or more vulnerable person who hasn't been infected likely should get vaccinated regularly to protect against infection. And despite what many people seem to be claiming, vaccination absolutely protects against infection.
Do you not think that healthier breakthrough infections are not significant? We should Be adapting our public policy knowing that this is occurring and for the majority of people mostly harmless especially if youíre not obese or have comorbidities or are old. Letís focus our isolation policies on people that are at risk and let the rest of us live our lives.
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Old 01-15-2022, 08:43 AM   #1978
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So what, Iím good for about ten weeks? And then what? Do I need another booster? I think itís highly unlikely that people will get booster shots every 10 weeks. Honestly it all just sounds ridiculous.

Who knows what impact that could have.

Anecdotal I know, but Iíve known at least 30 people in my work and in my friends circle who have not been boosted, but got COVID and it was mostly harmless. Itíll be hard to convince those people that they should keep getting boosters unless of course another more dangerous variant prevalent.
What's the other option, getting covid every 10 weeks or so? How long does natural immunity last? What are the short and long term side effects of routinely catching Covid19 2-3 times a year?

Boosters aren't something anyone wants to do, but what's the alternative?
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Old 01-15-2022, 09:00 AM   #1979
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Just stay away from the deer bars.
Its the deer gyms that are the issue. Shut them down.
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Old 01-15-2022, 09:43 AM   #1980
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One thing I think about often is how much the pandemic has expanded our knowledge of infectious disease and specifically the lay public's knowledge. Now that people are more aware of all the things that can go wrong with both infections and vaccinations, it seems to have impacted how we interact with everything and even if COVID left tomorrow, there'll be artifacts forever.

How many people will use hand sanitizer now forever? Wear masks when sick? Avoid air travel? Avoid cruises? Avoid crowded spaces? How many businesses will continue to offer and promote hygiene theatre? Some of these changes will be good, but there'll be bad consequences too.

Conversely, now that people have seen vaccines can really cause blood clots and other potentially serious issues, how many will be unable to properly assess risk and avoid important vaccines? We don't think about these risks when eating a peanut butter sandwich, but a list of potential side effects without context would likely change that for some. I fear that too much information may make the future tricky for many when it comes to risk assessments

I know when sars hit Toronto and the H1N1 flu scare a bunch of hand sanitizer stations went up everywhere. Most were eventually abandoned. The Plexiglas stuff will go away. People jamming up in lines was always terrible so hopefully some kind of respectful distancing remains even if it isn't 6 feet.

This obviously lasted longer. Things like masks I could see people continuing to wear in certain circumstances like they do in some parts of Asia post sars.
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