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Old 01-13-2022, 07:22 PM   #1641
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I'll bite. HOK is best of breed when it comes to sports facilities. You are dropping $600M+ on this undertaking. I can't think of a single reason to not go for a top firm. I don't think it's as simple as being local and being capable of doing the job.

Cana just did the refresh at Max Bell, doesn't mean they are the best to build the event center.
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You're right, HOK is one of the well-known sports design firms out there right now, I agree. That doesn't mean someone local, if given the chance, can't do it just as well. There's lots of designers in Calgary who have worked on arena projects of all sizes, and big international projects. You're assuming they can't do what HOK can, and that's just not true. Give them the chance. Arenas are not structurally complex facilities. It's more about a smart and compelling vision, and executing on that.

Did you know a local firm designed the Saddledome? Obviously it's outdated now, but at the time, was a beacon of design and engineering achievement.

Keep in mind, the Flames Event Centre design to date, and Rogers Place in Edmonton, are HOK specials. If you think those are mind-blowing designs just because it's HOK, then I'm not sure what to say. I realize there's lots of factors that go into the design that's shown publicly (including client preference and value engineering which the public does not see), but if you think that product is something that could have only been done outside of Calgary, we'll have to just agree to disagree.
Graham Edmunds, now GEC, is the original architect of the saddledome

its mainly a question of risk imo. At the end of the day, these major projects are going to want firms that 'know what they are doing'. While a big firm who has done libraries for example, may have the bodies and capacity to do the Cancer center or new concert hall, would you really want them too?

I agree that firms have the capacity to grow and evolve and there maybe firms locally that are good, but the evaluation matrix usually rates experience pretty high... Which is why so many local firms reach out to outside 'design partners', even if they have experience in that typology themselves.

I think the problem is that sometimes, you can get the 'B' team with the internationals, who are more interested in more exotic locals. This is not to say that you can't get a great project, like the library or the Telus building (though Vancouver's version is a better imo, despite the leaks)...but the brain trust of said firm has usually moved onto the next project by the end of schematic design
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Old 01-13-2022, 07:58 PM   #1642
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Sometimes I like to continue to hammer on debunked points when I'm wrong too.
The carny code requires it.
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Old 01-13-2022, 08:12 PM   #1643
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Graham Edmunds, now GEC, is the original architect of the saddledome
Graham McCourt
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Old 01-13-2022, 08:16 PM   #1644
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Your example is likely correct but something like Controls can be pretty messy spread across multiple properties if there's no universality to it.
Kinda like running a car with engine parts from different brands and manufacturers, you can probably make it work but it ends up being inefficient and more expensive in the long run.
I can assure you, running with Siemens on everything is costing the city and consequently us tax payers a lot more money in the long run. There are multiple ways to integrate with different protocols.

The discussion about RFP’s and open tender are a complete farce when it comes to the City of Calgary.

The thing is, the guys at city hall making those decisions are all ex Siemens guys. Go figure.
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Old 01-13-2022, 08:18 PM   #1645
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I absolutely despise the spec line in every City of Calgary job that says "controls contractor shall be Siemens"...
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Old 01-13-2022, 08:41 PM   #1646
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How do you explain Victoria Park and the west village? These have been eyesores for decades and have long been considered priority areas for development, but nothing of consequence has happened in either, even though there has been interest to get projects going there.
There is not infinite demand for development in Calgary. Spreading it too thin will result in a couple cool buildings in each area with a bunch of vacant lots. That does not create a destination for others in the city, which is required to support the proposed retail and entertainment aspects.

Its very intentional that the focus is kept on the East Village until it hits critical mass.
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Old 01-13-2022, 08:55 PM   #1647
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I put my name in for the third party job.

I have excellent experience as a third party.

I always wanted to be a third party and things have worked out quite well for me in that regard.
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Old 01-13-2022, 09:19 PM   #1648
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I put my name in for the third party job.

I have excellent experience as a third party.

I always wanted to be a third party and things have worked out quite well for me in that regard.
Aren't they just seeing if Davison is available?
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Old 01-13-2022, 09:21 PM   #1649
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Wrong thread.
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Old 01-13-2022, 10:15 PM   #1650
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Davidson might make sense. At least he understands the issues.
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Old 01-13-2022, 11:32 PM   #1651
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I can assure you, running with Siemens on everything is costing the city and consequently us tax payers a lot more money in the long run. There are multiple ways to integrate with different protocols.

The discussion about RFP’s and open tender are a complete farce when it comes to the City of Calgary.

The thing is, the guys at city hall making those decisions are all ex Siemens guys. Go figure.

Large organizations like the City of Calgary aren't flexible though. When it comes to tendering only those on the approved list can participate which probably keeps the club small. Same as the U of C or the U of A, there's incentive to be on their approved lists but it's a lot of work just to get considered.

Big picture is that there's tons of efficiencies that a City just misses so they have to keep it simple. It's not a great thing but it is what it is.
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Old 01-13-2022, 11:37 PM   #1652
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City council seeks 3rd party to ‘start fresh,’ find partners for Calgary Event Centre

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/other...?ocid=msedgntp
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Old 01-14-2022, 10:36 AM   #1653
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Council voted in camera to ban Mayor Gondek from negotiating the next arena deal

https://calgaryherald.com/opinion/co...ext-arena-deal
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Old 01-14-2022, 10:36 AM   #1654
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Good god you have some awful columnists in Calgary https://calgaryherald.com/opinion/co...box=1642162827
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Old 01-14-2022, 11:32 AM   #1655
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Good god you have some awful columnists in Calgary https://calgaryherald.com/opinion/co...box=1642162827
I don't entirely disagree, but if the councilors requested an emergency meeting and she just denied that request, that's pretty damning? I don't know where the blame lies in general, but to not even try to push the deadline or hold a meeting to discuss it seems like a pretty poor approach to actually get the arena built.
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Old 01-14-2022, 11:57 AM   #1656
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Good god you have some awful columnists in Calgary https://calgaryherald.com/opinion/co...box=1642162827

Did she make any false statements?

Gondek is an idiot who abused her power.
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Old 01-14-2022, 12:20 PM   #1657
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Did she make any false statements?

Gondek is an idiot who abused her power.

It is essentially an editorial version of Farkas’ fake council ballot.
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Old 01-14-2022, 12:36 PM   #1658
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It is essentially an editorial version of Farkas’ fake council ballot.
Its totally over sensationalized typical Corbella piece. However, there are nuggets of truth.

As a leader Gondek should have called the emergency session. Or at least called on her peers to attend. No one should debate that. It would have shown a resolve even if no one showed or there was deadlock. Her flat refusal to a constructive idea was a mistake.

Her twitter rant gave optics of someone with their back up ready to pounce. For someone in her position, just new to the job, its also a leadership fail.

The rest is usual Corbella sensationalism and can be ignored.

I said it before, maybe this deal was the wrong one, but maybe it was the right one. Regardless Gondek should have shown her leadership and balance much better at the end of December. Instead she threw political rocks, and she is finding herself in a glass house. Fairly or unfairly she created the pressure on herself to fix this when some simple calm steps would have really helped.

I never imagined to see her legacy in the balance basically 2 months into the job, but if she can help pull off something better all power to her. Bottom line, seems like a lesson that its easier to be a partisan than a builder.
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Old 01-14-2022, 01:11 PM   #1659
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Did she make any false statements?

Gondek is an idiot who abused her power.
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All of this could have been avoided had Gondek behaved differently on Dec. 21 to keep the $634-million event centre deal moving forward.
False? probably not.

True? probably not.
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Old 01-14-2022, 01:15 PM   #1660
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Did she in fact officially deny an emergency session requested by those 4 councilors, or is it procedural and didn't have enough support from the other 11 for it to happen? Without that information, it's just a theory.
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