[News] With the 66th OA pick Flames select D Adam Fox

[3thirty]

Originally Posted by jayswin

It depends, do we seriously upgrade our offense in the process and become a bigger threat in the next two seasons during the primes of our star young players? Or do we wait for him to possibly be a star three or four years from now when Gaudreau's set to be a free agent?

If we was a regular prospect than yeah, I'd be very tentative about a trade, but the NCAA flight risk is a valid concern and especially so with a Harvard student.

I know the rosy idea is that the Flames are a great organization and he's a good kid who will want to play here because he's been at camps and said the right things. End of the day though, the NHL is a business and if after four years his options are

1. Sign with team who drafted him or;

2. Wait two months and sign with any team in the league in what's sure to be a bidding war.

He'd be absolutely crazy not to take number two.

While I agree with most of this, the only luxury is he can choose who he plays for. The contracts will all be the same assuming max.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Hickey was a lesser prospect, and they did mention quite frequently that the reason he was included was because of the flight risk.

Also, he was not leaked to the media as a available, just traded, so there was no chance for the media to say anything pre trade. Of course the Flames would let it be known league wide if a prospect of this caliber was available, and of course the media would jump on the NCAA factor.

I'm trying to recollect the timing of Trelving saying he wasn't going to sign, I think it may have been after the trade, but there was speculation from the local media guys that he wasn't signing before hand. It kind of ramped up after the season ended when Trelving was saying they were going all out to get him signed early.

[jayswin]

@ thirty ^^^^^^^^

Correct yes, I got a little over excited typing that post out, lol. He can only sign for the max and Calgary would be signing him for the max anyways, so it's a moot point.

It puts every team on even playing terms and the best teams in the east will hold the power.

[JJFlash]

I never heard why he was not invited to play in the Olympics or if he was, why did he turn it down. I am not sure players need to tell teams what the want to hear when they are in a position like fox. I think the Flames have a really good idea of Fox's intentions. If the Flames suddenly trade one of their stud Defenders or Defender prospects...we have our answer. There is no better time for a smallish skilled defender than now.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by JJFlash

I think the Flames have a really good idea of Fox's intentions.

Based on what?

[nemanja2306]

The thing is, if the Flames start offering Fox, the other teams will probably know that Fox has not intention of signing with the Flames. That greatly reduces his trade value - would you give up a lot for a prospect that has a great chance of being a flight risk?

[SebC]

The NHL needs to get this loophole closed. Maybe they should've traded that for Olympic participation.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

If I am Fox, I know I am going to prefer signing somewhere else. Why? Look at the depth the Flames have on defence.

Flames depth on defense is something to consider, but if I'm Fox I'm more concerned about opportunity to show I can play, period. The Flames are proud of their "over cook prospects" strategy. I'm sure Fox is aware of it too. I'm also sure that he agency (currently known as advisors) is aware of this and will be telling his client to look at the treatment of the many college players that signed with the Flames of late, like Kenney Morrison and Spencer Foo, just as a couple of examples. It doesn't take a Harvard economist to figure out the difference between earning a minor league salary and earning a NHL salary, and how that money will never be recouped. Opportunity will be a big driver, and the Flames are a team that have a history of not providing opportunity until their hand is forced. I hope Fox signs with the Flames, but because of this loophole, I'm not certain that is going to happen. This is one of the few times where players can control their destiny from the get-go. There is no benefit to the player in not going to free agency.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by JJFlash

I never heard why he was not invited to play in the Olympics or if he was, why did he turn it down. I am not sure players need to tell teams what the want to hear when they are in a position like fox. I think the Flames have a really good idea of Fox's intentions. If the Flames suddenly trade one of their stud Defenders or Defender prospects...we have our answer. There is no better time for a smallish skilled defender than now.

Fox isn't the greatest skater. I could see that being a concern on the bigger ice.

Originally Posted by Two Fivenagame

Fox has to be looking at the Flames RD depth wondering where/if he fits.

The Ham's have #1 and #2 RD locked up and Rasmus is already knocking on the door.

What else is there for Fox in the NCAA? Sounds like Harvard is only going to get worse, so likely no chance at a national title.

Maybe he signs at end of this season, turns pro and gets a head start developing his pro game in the AHL.

Interesting prospect to watch.

Th difference between Fox and all the other Flames d-propsects is he immediately become the best PP defenseman on the team as soon as he signs a contract. That gives him an edge on the other guys who may be better 5 on 5.

[Anduril]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Fox isn't the greatest skater. I could see that being a concern on the bigger ice.



Th difference between Fox and all the other Flames d-propsects is he immediately become the best PP defenseman on the team as soon as he signs a contract. That gives him an edge on the other guys who may be better 5 on 5.

Hamilton is currently our best PP guy yet hadn't seen proper usage for the longest time, I don't have the best faith that it'll slide into his advantage immediately.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Fox isn't the greatest skater. I could see that being a concern on the bigger ice.



Th difference between Fox and all the other Flames d-propsects is he immediately become the best PP defenseman on the team as soon as he signs a contract. That gives him an edge on the other guys who may be better 5 on 5.

Hamilton quarterbacked the Canadian PP at the WJs as well. And he has 6 years and 400 games of NHL experience on top of that.

Fox is a great prospect but the way fans overvalue prospects in relation to actual NHL players, never ceases to amaze me.

[dissentowner]

I can't believe the NHL has not fixed that stupid loophole that allows college players to go UFA. It is just wrong.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I can't believe the NHL has not fixed that stupid loophole that allows college players to go UFA.

...because it's not a loophole.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Parallex

...because it's not a loophole.

It is ridiculous.

[getbak]

I can't believe the NHLPA has not fixed that stupid loophole that allows teams to not sign players that they drafted if the player doesn't have a great college career. It is just wrong.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by getbak

I can't believe the NHLPA has not fixed that stupid loophole that allows teams to not sign players that they drafted if the player doesn't have a great college career. It is just wrong.

It is ridiculous.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

It is ridiculous.

No, it's not.

What's ridiculous is people's attitude. Once upon a time the "loophole" folk whining about (Also not a "loophole") was teams losing exclusive negotiating rights a year before graduation if the player had a gap year and played an extra year of prep level hockey... now it's a "loophole" when the exclusivity window expires per usual time at graduation?

Stop calling it a loophole. The way it works is the way it is intended to work.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I can't believe the NHL has not fixed that stupid loophole that allows college players to go UFA. It is just wrong.

What's the solution? The team gets 30 days after their college career to sign them. If they REALLY want the player that it's tempted to test the UFA market, then pay that man to keep him around.

If the team didn't want him, but rules were in place that he couldn't freely sign with anyone else that has interest for say, a whole year, that's not really fair to the player.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by New Era

Flames depth on defense is something to consider, but if I'm Fox I'm more concerned about opportunity to show I can play, period. The Flames are proud of their "over cook prospects" strategy. I'm sure Fox is aware of it too. I'm also sure that he agency (currently known as advisors) is aware of this and will be telling his client to look at the treatment of the many college players that signed with the Flames of late, like Kenney Morrison and Spencer Foo, just as a couple of examples. It doesn't take a Harvard economist to figure out the difference between earning a minor league salary and earning a NHL salary, and how that money will never be recouped. Opportunity will be a big driver, and the Flames are a team that have a history of not providing opportunity until their hand is forced. I hope Fox signs with the Flames, but because of this loophole, I'm not certain that is going to happen. This is one of the few times where players can control their destiny from the get-go. There is no benefit to the player in not going to free agency.

You don't think agents are smart enough to see that Kenney Morrison isn't good enough to be on an NHL roster?

That Spencer Foo looked a little overwhelmed at camp and needed seasoning?

These guys are advisors and are well educated on the percentages for their clients when they sign.

Neither of those guys would have made any NHL roster.

[SuperMatt18]

They should probably just make it similar to RFA rules. Makes no sense that they get to go right to UFA.

If you offer your own draft pick the Rookie Maximum contract (think of this as the qualifying offer) then he either has to sign with you or you retain his RFA rights.

Another team can still sign him but would have to pay a pre-determined compensation (Maybe it's a 2nd round pick).

Then at least the team gets something in return, the other team has to give up something, and it's less about just allowing a player to pick his own team.