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Old 10-26-2017, 10:57 PM   #501
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Humans have been genetically modifying food for thousands of years, the only thing that’s changed is the methods used to do it.
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Old 10-26-2017, 11:17 PM   #502
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Freshness is one reason.
Agreed, however home grown still taste great even after months of storage. Or even being frozen.
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Another reason might the methods of selective breeding and hybridizing. I heard an interview on Quirks and Quarks (CBC) with a food scientist who was trying to lead a movement toward better tasting commercial produce. He argued that for decades they've been selecting traits like hardiness, drought, flood, and pest resistance, colour, shape, size, etc. He listed I think 21 traits in total and taste wasn't one of them. So we've ended up with beautiful looking fruits and veggies that ship well but taste bland.
Interesting. But are the seeds and plants I buy somehow different than what is used commercially?
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Humans have been genetically modifying food for thousands of years, the only thing that’s changed is the methods used to do it.
This is a vast over simplification.
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Old 10-27-2017, 12:04 AM   #503
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So your answer it to change the eating habits of 1/6th of the planets population ?? Good luck with that.

All this misguided fear-mongering over good technology is just making the issue more complex. It likely actively drives people to eating crappy. Especially if their friends on facebook make them feel bad for eating perfectly good GMO food.

This same misguided fear-mongering (from groups like Greenpeace) is scaring poor farmers around the world from adopting a technology (GMO) that could improve their quality of life (and potentially save lives).

So do you think those small farms do not jump at the chance to be more efficient ? If the GMO seed provides a 40% greater yield of course they are going to use it. Do not be surprised if many of your local Farmers Market veggies are made using round-up ready crops.

Also, I need some citations to some of the stuff you are saying. I always hear that "this generation will be the first that does not outlive the last". Let's see some evidence. Can you also use paragraphs ?
Sorry, I cant effectively qoute links on my phone, but here goes.

Changing some habits of 1/6 the population is not doable? So what, we should aim to change the eco, agri, and societal cultures of the other 5/6? Or just selective regions regions which experience frequent famines? No, it wasn't the fact it was GM cotton that led to astronomical levels of suicide in Indian farmers, rather the debt load from the system GE crops operate.
https://enveurope.springeropen.com/a...302-015-0043-8

It's not a secret the seeds themselves are patented for all GE seeds. This creates a constant cycle of debt for every farmer using the crop. Let alone dictating the use of massive amounts of specific pesticides, or the hundreds of thousands of dollars of equipment needed to harvest the thousands of acres needed to make a 'profit'. Farmers, it seems, are not seeing a 40% increase in profits, as yield is tied to expenditure. Apparently, debt ratios for farmers are at an all time high. Seems to me someone's making lots of money, but it sure as hell isnt the farmer.
https://www.agcensus.usda.gov/Public...d_Farmland.pdf
https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/farm...bt-and-wealth/

As for fear mongering, it's important to look at it with some relativity. Ads for Coke, McDonalds, Bayer, InVigo, etc are in every commercial break and every billboard. If some out there chose to promote a different take on it, so be it. Also, if some fear mongering friend talking #### about your diet inspired one to go shove back a bag of cookies and a bottle of pop, I'm not sure millions of dollars would be going into advertisement and marketing disputing such things.

For what it's worth, i think science is almost predicated on the notion there is always more we don't know. Breastmilk vs formula is a prime example of nature being indisputably superior to anything concocted in a lab. someone else might have some specifics, but didn't we only discover the importance of 'antioxidants' fairly recently?

Rates of obesity, diabetes, heart disease, increasing and at younger ages is noted by every health organization you can think of.
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056...20in%20obesity
http://www.who.int/dietphysicalactivity/childhood/en/
http://www.diabetes.org/newsroom/pre...ns-SEARCH.html

It is beyond the simple 'article A is measurably equal to article B'. It is part of an entire system which, from everything I've read, I do not believe to be a positive for our world.
Many may disagree, but it's way oversimplifying the issue and maybe unjustly jusgemental to think the guy buying organic has his head up his ass and is a sucker for fads.
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Old 10-27-2017, 12:58 AM   #504
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Originally Posted by 81MC View Post
Sorry, I cant effectively qoute links on my phone, but here goes.

Changing some habits of 1/6 the population is not doable? So what, we should aim to change the eco, agri, and societal cultures of the other 5/6? Or just selective regions regions which experience frequent famines? No, it wasn't the fact it was GM cotton that led to astronomical levels of suicide in Indian farmers, rather the debt load from the system GE crops operate.
https://enveurope.springeropen.com/a...302-015-0043-8

It's not a secret the seeds themselves are patented for all GE seeds. This creates a constant cycle of debt for every farmer using the crop. Let alone dictating the use of massive amounts of specific pesticides, or the hundreds of thousands of dollars of equipment needed to harvest the thousands of acres needed to make a 'profit'. Farmers, it seems, are not seeing a 40% increase in profits, as yield is tied to expenditure. Apparently, debt ratios for farmers are at an all time high. Seems to me someone's making lots of money, but it sure as hell isnt the farmer.
https://www.agcensus.usda.gov/Public...d_Farmland.pdf
https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/farm...bt-and-wealth/

No. We should embrace technology (GMO's) to improve everyone's ability to produce better yields that are more economical. Also, non-GMO seeds also have to be purchased new every year. It is the way the system works. You can not demonize GMO seeds when it is the way the industry has worked for years.

Counterpoint regarding the Indian Farmer suicides.
https://www.acsh.org/news/2017/01/07...es-india-10696



As for fear mongering, it's important to look at it with some relativity. Ads for Coke, McDonalds, Bayer, InVigo, etc are in every commercial break and every billboard. If some out there chose to promote a different take on it, so be it. Also, if some fear mongering friend talking #### about your diet inspired one to go shove back a bag of cookies and a bottle of pop, I'm not sure millions of dollars would be going into advertisement and marketing disputing such things.

Bayer. The maker of Aspirin. Which is willow bark (a natural product) processed into consistent doses. Who the hell is InVigo? Not sure what "big Pharma" has to do with this discussion. It only proves that you have a big time anti-corporate bias.

We can both agree that advertising junk food is detrimental to society, but I am not supporting McDonalds or Coca-Cola. I am supporting Scientific progress


For what it's worth, i think science is almost predicated on the notion there is always more we don't know. Breastmilk vs formula is a prime example of nature being indisputably superior to anything concocted in a lab. someone else might have some specifics, but didn't we only discover the importance of 'antioxidants' fairly recently?

This is a big time fallacy. Science can produce pretty concrete results with enough data points. Not like something is going to overturn Gravity as a Scientific theory.

Breast milk vs Formula. Is not about science being overturned. It is about trying to create something for women that can not breast feed effectively. Breast feeding guilt is a giant separate issue that women face.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...breastfeeding/

The difference between Breastfeeding and Formula feeding is overstated and marginal at best.




Rates of obesity, diabetes, heart disease, increasing and at younger ages is noted by every health organization you can think of.
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056...20in%20obesity
http://www.who.int/dietphysicalactivity/childhood/en/
http://www.diabetes.org/newsroom/pre...ns-SEARCH.html

It is beyond the simple 'article A is measurably equal to article B'. It is part of an entire system which, from everything I've read, I do not believe to be a positive for our world.
Many may disagree, but it's way oversimplifying the issue and maybe unjustly jusgemental to think the guy buying organic has his head up his ass and is a sucker for fads.

I agree our diets are contributing to poor health, but the medical system is keeping us alive longer. Thank the pharmaceutical industry for us living longer than our predecessors. I suppose you are anti big-pharma too though.

The guy buying Organic is constantly being misled by the Organic food industry. It is not a fad. It is part of the current Anti-science culture that has formed lately (anti-Vax, Anti-GMO etc).

Here is a bunch of links refuting the benefits of Organic.

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/no-...-organic-food/
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/ea...28041.abstract
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/org...meat-and-milk/

Answers in bold above.

All of this leads us to the Clean eating delusion.

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/the...ting-delusion/

Anti-GMO, Clean, and all Natural eating is essentially an eating disorder. There is nothing in this movement that is backed in Science. It is big industry propaganda. Sound familiar?

We can both agree that the Western diet is poor, that does not mean that we need to fear GMO's and the unlimited potential they have to help solve the health crisis we face.
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Old 10-27-2017, 11:04 AM   #505
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Big Pharma? Bayer is, last I heard, in the process of aquiring Monsanto, and has long had a crop sciences division (QO houses one of their buildings in fact). InVigor is a seed brand of Bayer. I tried to use specifically Non-Monsanto references.

No, traditional harvesting does not require new seeds to be purchased. You can, undoubtedly, if one wishes. But most conventional farmers/gardeners would identify the excellent producers and harvest those seeds again and again.

When my wife was pregnant, I spent an awful lot of time reading. And sorry, a blog post doesn't weigh the same as sources in books I've read. Breastmilk has an uncanny ability to be unique in composition to each mother/child, and changes in composition continually from birth through development. Not that it matters, as it was just a good example science/nature.

All but one link you posted is from a very pro-industry bias. Which is fine, but you can't assume I'm coming from an Anti-Corp bias and then provide the sources you have.
Also, the debate isn't Organic being healthier as a foodstuff than Conventional (as per the AJCN article). It's that GMO foodstuffs as a whole are detrimental compared to either conventional or Organic or alternative.

We do clearly agree on the major fact, that being the state of health and diet. I do wonder why we feel we need to turn to a laboratory though to fix it? The answer is really quite simple, and as near as I can tell the current shift in agriculture has done nothing but continue to feed the poor health diet.
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Old 10-27-2017, 11:42 AM   #506
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Big Pharma? Bayer is, last I heard, in the process of aquiring Monsanto, and has long had a crop sciences division (QO houses one of their buildings in fact). InVigor is a seed brand of Bayer. I tried to use specifically Non-Monsanto references.

No, traditional harvesting does not require new seeds to be purchased. You can, undoubtedly, if one wishes. But most conventional farmers/gardeners would identify the excellent producers and harvest those seeds again and again.

When my wife was pregnant, I spent an awful lot of time reading. And sorry, a blog post doesn't weigh the same as sources in books I've read. Breastmilk has an uncanny ability to be unique in composition to each mother/child, and changes in composition continually from birth through development. Not that it matters, as it was just a good example science/nature.

All but one link you posted is from a very pro-industry bias. Which is fine, but you can't assume I'm coming from an Anti-Corp bias and then provide the sources you have.
Also, the debate isn't Organic being healthier as a foodstuff than Conventional (as per the AJCN article). It's that GMO foodstuffs as a whole are detrimental compared to either conventional or Organic or alternative.

We do clearly agree on the major fact, that being the state of health and diet. I do wonder why we feel we need to turn to a laboratory though to fix it? The answer is really quite simple, and as near as I can tell the current shift in agriculture has done nothing but continue to feed the poor health diet.
The links i posted are not pro-industry at all. They are pro-science. Science Based Medicine is a Science advocacy website that has no skin in the game.

Your second point is saying that the current GMO crops are unhealthy foods (ie. Corn). However, most of that is being fed to livestock.

GMO's are an emerging technology and the GMO salmon that was released is the first of many new options coming to market. GMO's will supplement our existing foods and make it more efficient to farm them as well.

You are basing your Anti-GMO stance on Anti-corn syrup/anti - western diet when they are not really related.

GMO orange tree's resistant to blight. GMO Salmon that grows quicker and uses less food to reach adulthood. GMO rice that is Vitamin A enriched to help prevent sight loss and deaths in the third world. Concentrate on these types of innovations to see the benefits.

I also welcome the innovation of lab grown meat. If we can reduce the amount of land needed for livestock it would have a big benefit on the environment.

I feel that changing technology and innovation is much easier than getting a large chunk of the population to change their eating habits.
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Old 10-27-2017, 12:51 PM   #507
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Poorer people in North America also have a worse diet, statistically speaking. Not because they eat less Organic and Free Range, but because they consume more corn and 'meat' products by way of fast foods and cheap grocery items (which are almost all filled with corn, soy and their by products). Literally their diet is killing them, but we herald the same products as saviours of the human race for sustaining our food needs?
I'm not really sure where you're heading at with this line of thinking. But it shouldn't really come as a surprise that poor people with little money and little time tend to eat food that is cheap and doesn't take a lot of time to prepare.

In any case, better education on the science of calories-in calories-out is the way to combat obesity and diabetes, not eating 'natural.'
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Old 10-27-2017, 01:15 PM   #508
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Or bringing down food costs by making growing more efficient and cheaper... I wonder how we could do this.
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Old 10-27-2017, 01:15 PM   #509
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Agreed, however home grown still taste great even after months of storage. Or even being frozen.
Well you if are freezing / canning / cold storing you are probably still preserving the produce at its ideal ripeness. Also I would imagine soil quality and weather are big factors. Those of us who garden tend to lovingly care for our little garden plots whereas I'm sure there are compromises made within the reality of 1000+ acre commercial farms.

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Interesting. But are the seeds and plants I buy somehow different than what is used commercially?.
Maybe? If you buy heirloom tomatoes you have a choice of dozens of varieties whereas the grocery store sells maybe 3 or 4.
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Old 02-16-2018, 06:59 PM   #510
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Sent this to Nabisco, Mr Christie, and Triscuit after finally seeing enough of that stupid non gmo commercial during Olympic coverage.

Your triscuit non gmo commercial is absolute trash. Please stop pandering to ignorance, fear and scientific illiteracy.
Shame on you, you idiots.
Our family will now refuse to purchase any of your ####ty products and will make sure everyone knows it.

I know it will do no good, but I do feel much better now.
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Old 02-16-2018, 07:09 PM   #511
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You'll be getting a box full of Triscuits Sociables and Wheat Thins in the mail any day now. My grams used to hound them about sugar and she had a root cellar full of crackers when she died. Not that grandmas are the only ones who ever write letters of complaint to large corps o anything.
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Old 02-16-2018, 07:40 PM   #512
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Old 02-16-2018, 08:32 PM   #513
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Just saying Hi to FLOTUS...
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Old 02-16-2018, 09:42 PM   #514
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I don't want any Franken-Salt...glad there is someone out there looking after my best interests. I could have got ovarian cancer from GMO Salt.
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Old 02-16-2018, 09:44 PM   #515
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It's non gmo but how many Yeti's were harmed harvesting it?
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Old 02-16-2018, 09:46 PM   #516
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I've been trying to get a bull to $$$$ a Wolf for years now so I can get a werecow.

But the bull keeps killing the Wolf
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Old 02-17-2018, 02:47 AM   #517
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I bet it has an expiry date too.
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Old 02-19-2018, 09:27 PM   #518
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Sent this to Nabisco, Mr Christie, and Triscuit after finally seeing enough of that stupid non gmo commercial during Olympic coverage.

Your triscuit non gmo commercial is absolute trash. Please stop pandering to ignorance, fear and scientific illiteracy.
Shame on you, you idiots.
Our family will now refuse to purchase any of your ####ty products and will make sure everyone knows it.

I know it will do no good, but I do feel much better now.
I did it to Orville Redenbacher. Sobeys no name brand for this guy now.
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