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Old 05-27-2019, 11:14 AM   #61
edn88
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I totally forgot the NHL playoffs are even still on. Blues and Bruins right?
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Old 05-27-2019, 02:07 PM   #62
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^ Unfortunately, THE model is either 2 high powered Cs or the single best C in the game.
You could make the case though that the model that shuts that down will definitely be replicated years and years after though, and we saw first-hand how futile your weapons can be when they're off or well-defended. I don't think there are enough guys that can reliably give you that for every team to work to that model - nor are they easy to get.

The model is definitely good and proven. But I think that unless you can get a Bergeron, Krejci or Binnington the alternative is to shut down the teams that do. Of course, if you develop something close to a proven model that works you go for it. St. Louis, with all the depth they have, wouldn't be anywhere if Binnington didn't show up in January and give them a chance each night.

But for all the models, I see 2 teams with leadership and a drive to get them where they are. Once the more motivated team in Columbus took out Boston's biggest threat, it was pretty much Boston's to win. Their leadership and confidence along with a cast of great players pretty much wrote that story. And since St. Louis started swimming to the surface, they've never looked back. They have an unbeatable goalie and an entire team that has been feeling it steadily all 2019. We can analyze how they fit into a model, but to say that Boston is here on the strength of C or St. Louis is here strictly because of G dismisses a lot of factors. MacKinnon, one of the best players in the game shouldn't have seen the 2nd round. Ovechkin lost to a bunch of jerks and Crosby lost to a younger version of their model... who lost to a bunch of jerks.

I definitely don't think that you ignore the tried and proven models, I just think that for 31 teams entering the arena they need to develop models that are available to them I guess.
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Old 05-27-2019, 02:38 PM   #63
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^ Unfortunately, THE model is either 2 high powered Cs or the single best C in the game.
Bergeron/Krecji were good but not really in that category IMO. Same with Kopitar/Carter and especially Toews/Richards.
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Old 05-27-2019, 02:48 PM   #64
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It's totally different playing the same team 4-7 times in a row vs a different team every night. The officials can't help but call it differently and teams can strategize and play the Matchup game better and be more physical. Plus the sudden death overtime changes things. A loss is a loss, no loser point.

They should break up the regular season into series as well similar to baseball. Play a 3 game series against the same team.
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Old 05-27-2019, 03:28 PM   #65
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That the lessons learned from trying to contain the even speedier McDavid don‘t apply to Mackinnon.
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Old 05-27-2019, 04:54 PM   #66
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The inconsistent refs sometimes give you an extra half second to "finish the check" (nudge, nudge, wink, wink!), and sometimes allow you a crosscheck or two in front of your net, but don't count on this if you're protecting a lead in the third period.
The Flames don't get to learn much because the sample size was too small.
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Old 05-27-2019, 06:00 PM   #67
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Things that have become very clear to me

1) the game is reffed COMPLETELY differently in the playoffs. The small little slashing, interference, roughing calls basically disappeared. I don't mind it, but then ref this way in the season. It can't be 2 different game/sports from the season to the playoffs.

2) in light of number 1, soft perimeter players won't do much in the post season. "beat them on the pp" is not a strategy that will win much with a high skill but smaller team given the changes in what is/isn't a penalty.

3) being a successful gm in this league is frigin harder than ever. How do you build 1 team that can compete in 2 different versions of hockey?? The 2 teams in the final have plenty of skill but also plenty of size and physicality.

So i guess that we just need players to be high skill, great skaters, that are big, and engage physically... That's it though
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Old 05-27-2019, 06:18 PM   #68
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You could make the case though that the model that shuts that down will definitely be replicated years and years after though, and we saw first-hand how futile your weapons can be when they're off or well-defended. I don't think there are enough guys that can reliably give you that for every team to work to that model - nor are they easy to get.

The model is definitely good and proven. But I think that unless you can get a Bergeron, Krejci or Binnington the alternative is to shut down the teams that do. Of course, if you develop something close to a proven model that works you go for it. St. Louis, with all the depth they have, wouldn't be anywhere if Binnington didn't show up in January and give them a chance each night.

But for all the models, I see 2 teams with leadership and a drive to get them where they are. Once the more motivated team in Columbus took out Boston's biggest threat, it was pretty much Boston's to win. Their leadership and confidence along with a cast of great players pretty much wrote that story. And since St. Louis started swimming to the surface, they've never looked back. They have an unbeatable goalie and an entire team that has been feeling it steadily all 2019. We can analyze how they fit into a model, but to say that Boston is here on the strength of C or St. Louis is here strictly because of G dismisses a lot of factors. MacKinnon, one of the best players in the game shouldn't have seen the 2nd round. Ovechkin lost to a bunch of jerks and Crosby lost to a younger version of their model... who lost to a bunch of jerks.

I definitely don't think that you ignore the tried and proven models, I just think that for 31 teams entering the arena they need to develop models that are available to them I guess.
Bergeron and O'Reilly are top 5 3 zone centres in the entire league.

That's my point. There is no model that shuts that down.

Go look at the last 30 years of cup winners and tell me what they have in common.

Hell, look at the only time Calgary won: 2x75+ point centres. Gilmour finished 2 assists outside of the top 10 and Nieuwy tied for 5th in the league in goals.

Imagine a situation where Monahan finishes with 51 goals and when he goes off the ice, Backlund comes over the boards and has 58 assists.

Right now Boston sends Berg off the ice with his 79 points (in 65 games) and Krejci hops over the boards with his 73 points. Boston's second line centre scored 26 more points than Backlund this year (and is also excellent in all 3 zones).

If you go back through the entirety of all cup winners in the last 30 years you'll find 2 elite centres, or maybe the best centre in the game at the time their team won the cup. It really is that decisive.

Just pick a year at random, look at the team who won the cup, then check their roster.

Let's try...2008: Zetterberg and Datsyuk. 90+ points each.

Let's try...1997: Yzerman and Fedorov

let's try...2001: Sakic and Forsberg combined for more than 200 points.

The outlier will probably be New Jersey, but like i highlighted already, Jennings trophy with maybe the best goalie of all time and a couple of top 10-20 defensemen of all time.
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Old 05-29-2019, 06:02 AM   #69
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I've learned that I hate watching playoffs when "my team" isn't in them. So I don't really watch...a bit here and there idly, maybe a bit of OT.

It's a LONG wait for October.

Other than that: what I've said before...the hardest working teams win. There may be other factors, but nobody floats. No one swoops and cruises. Every player has purpose on every shift - either offensively creating, or closing fast defensively. The teams that execute that philosophy best and most effectively...win. Period.

Great centres and good goaltending are factors, but if too many players are too ineffective in their roles, it doesn't matter who they have playing for them. What do we so often hear from coaches? "We failed to execute."
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Old 05-29-2019, 08:54 AM   #70
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I think the Flames problem is they played their best hockey in mid-season and then their top line fell off their game and never found it again. The playoffs came, and the first line was ineffective, like the previous 20 games, and they lost. They stole regular season wins due to a fourth line and others stepping up, but that wasn't going to cut it in the playoffs.
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Old 05-29-2019, 01:41 PM   #71
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Things that have become very clear to me

1) the game is reffed COMPLETELY differently in the playoffs. The small little slashing, interference, roughing calls basically disappeared. I don't mind it, but then ref this way in the season. It can't be 2 different game/sports from the season to the playoffs.

2) in light of number 1, soft perimeter players won't do much in the post season. "beat them on the pp" is not a strategy that will win much with a high skill but smaller team given the changes in what is/isn't a penalty.

3) being a successful gm in this league is frigin harder than ever. How do you build 1 team that can compete in 2 different versions of hockey?? The 2 teams in the final have plenty of skill but also plenty of size and physicality.

So i guess that we just need players to be high skill, great skaters, that are big, and engage physically... That's it though
Of course, what you wrote has been true since the NHL started.
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Old 05-29-2019, 04:17 PM   #72
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I think the Flames problem is they played their best hockey in mid-season and then their top line fell off their game and never found it again. The playoffs came, and the first line was ineffective, like the previous 20 games, and they lost. They stole regular season wins due to a fourth line and others stepping up, but that wasn't going to cut it in the playoffs.
Agree - it comes down to the fact that, for reasons that are not obvious, 3 of the players that were key to the Flames' dominance earlier in the season (Monahan, Lindholm and Tkachuk), had their offensive performance fall off dramatically in the last quarter of the season, and this carried over to the playoffs. All three are young players who, barring injury, would normally be expected to get even better as the season wears on, and they didn't.
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Old 05-30-2019, 05:42 AM   #73
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They should break up the regular season into series as well similar to baseball. Play a 3 game series against the same team.
Imagine watching a three game Flames vs. Panthers/Coyotes/Wild... This really only works when there are natural rivalries (through history, skill, and/or geography).

There are many baseball games played to seemingly empty stadiums with $2 outfield seats.
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Old 05-30-2019, 08:31 AM   #74
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They should break up the regular season into series as well similar to baseball. Play a 3 game series against the same team.
Baseball teams play pretty much every day, hockey about 2 times a week.

Since you only play teams not in your conference twice a year (home and away) and not in your division 3 times, this won't work at all.

For example, if you want Calgary to play any eastern team its two game series back to back, it would be a lot of travel for both. You'd end up having a series of 1 game road trips throughout the season. It would make team travel all the time.

In baseball, teams play 3-4 game series to alleviate travel. In hockey, the opposite happens.
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Old 06-01-2019, 08:43 PM   #75
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In summary, lack of physical play and size were the main attributes lacking during the last 2 first round playoff losses for Calgary.

My nickels worth..

I would also add that Peters was out coached and did not make the necessary adjustments, especially in games 3-5, which made the Avs look like second coming of the 70s Montreal Canadiens.

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Old 06-01-2019, 10:53 PM   #76
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After the awesomeness of the first round, 3 games in 11 days is no way to keep up momentum.

All the lore of the icepacks is tougher to appreciate when there are days off more than not
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Old 06-01-2019, 11:32 PM   #77
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You can see that power still wins games. Tough,smart hockey players. Tough.
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Old 06-02-2019, 08:14 AM   #78
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Baseball teams play pretty much every day, hockey about 2 times a week.

Since you only play teams not in your conference twice a year (home and away) and not in your division 3 times, this won't work at all.

For example, if you want Calgary to play any eastern team its two game series back to back, it would be a lot of travel for both. You'd end up having a series of 1 game road trips throughout the season. It would make team travel all the time.

In baseball, teams play 3-4 game series to alleviate travel. In hockey, the opposite happens.
In the NHL you would actually be setting up a system of two home games/two road games with a back to back to series. For example. Philly at Calgary, Calgary at Philly then Calgary at Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh at Calgary. Pittsburgh would go onto another Western city (Edomnton) and someone else would roll into Calgary. It could be interesting.
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Old 06-02-2019, 10:50 AM   #79
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In the NHL you would actually be setting up a system of two home games/two road games with a back to back to series. For example. Philly at Calgary, Calgary at Philly then Calgary at Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh at Calgary. Pittsburgh would go onto another Western city (Edomnton) and someone else would roll into Calgary. It could be interesting.
Travel would be insane. If I understand correctly, it limits the team to 2 game road trips. The Flames would have to make a lot more trips out east rather than having a few extended road trips.

All of the complaining and excuses we heard in February this year would be increased and amplified
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Old 06-04-2019, 09:16 PM   #80
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What I learned watching the playoffs is that the Flames are nowhere near being a contender. There needs to be serious changes to how their team is built.
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