[News] Eichel: Sabres wouldn't let me get surgery on herniated disk in neck

[NewFan]

Let's imagine that we won this year's 1st overall pick. Will you trade that for Eichel? Otherwise i think we don't have enougth asset to trade for him as our offer must be higher than LAK or NYR.

[Manhattanboy]

Ya sounds like LA and NYR have a treasure trove of riches they can offer. Sigh.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Lol, yeah they continue sucking with even less in the cupboards. Extending the suck even longer...

Thats some good team building.

As opposed to the pray to win the lottery plan. Eichel was a 2nd overall to McDavid. Blow it up and suck for 5 years and you probably don't get an Eichel.

I would go with the sure thing, if possible.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Ya sounds like LA and NYR have a treasure trove of riches they can offer. Sigh.

Well #### everything.

[Mull]

Originally Posted by Ped

Neither of those things are true, nor have been stated.


The Sabres and Eichel disagree on the treatment for his injury. They are not withholding treatment. They think rehab will be fine. Eichel wants surgery. Both are treatments.

And Eichel has not played the entire season. He played 21 games. It is suspected the injury occurred on March 7, and he didn't play after that, but they didn't officially shut him down for the season until mid-April.

Originally Posted by transplant99

The team never made him play against his will...period. Thats why he hasnt played in 2 months.

Dont know what else you are so triggered about.

The team did not "withhold" treatment either, they just wanted a different one. They were never asking him to play, only to not get surgery.

They owe him 50 Million dollars no matter what, so yes they absolutely get a say in which way that should go, particularly if their doctors think one is better than the other.

It is entirely within their rights to do so as collectively bargained with the NHLPA. If he doesnt like their decision, he can file a grievance.

Key info I missed, thank you for this.

It is still shameful, sickening and gross to call him a 'me me me' player for looking after his long term health.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

Ya sounds like LA and NYR have a treasure trove of riches they can offer. Sigh.

Yeah I'm getting tired of hearing this as well, sure LA and NY have better un-proven prospects but in todays NHL it's got to be a close money in money out deal and Buffalo is not going to take an aging cap dump to get prospects for Eichel, they will want an up and coming star player around Eichel's age and the trading partner team needs to shred some $$$ as well to take on a $10m cap hit. Both LA and NY's best players making big money are in their late 20's or into their 30's.

If I'm Buffalo I'm looking at players like Kyle Conner, Brock Boeser, Timo Meier, Alex Tuch, Sabastian Aho, Aleksander Barkov, Brayden Point, Mathew Barzal or our own Matthew Tkachuk as a starting point.

Question is do they think Dylan Cozens can make the next step or do they insist on a centre back?

[Flames_F.T.W]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Where was Eichel drafted?

IF and a massive IF you can get him it changes everything...for me they should pull out all the stops to get him

what is the worst that can happen? they suck? newsflash

Haha this sums up how I feel as well. It's not like we're risking anything. We already suck

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

If I'm Buffalo I'm looking at players like Kyle Conner, Brock Boeser, Timo Meier, Alex Tuch, Sabastian Aho, Aleksander Barkov, Brayden Point, Mathew Barzal or our own Matthew Tkachuk as a starting point.

Buffalo can ask all they want, but those bolded players are already better than Eichel, so those teams would laugh hanging up. When you add in variance in contracts, it just makes things worse. Why give up better players for a guy with a bigger salary? Buffalo can hope all they want, but the reality is they have a problem because of Eichel's $10M contract.

Calgary is probably in a pretty good situation if they want to take a run at him, because they do have a young player that could fit in the structure being talked about, and could even out the salary issue. Tkachuk's QO puts him in the same range as Eichel, so Buffalo may not blink at that. With the extra million+, depending on the extension negotiated, they could then be adding pieces to the mix beyond just the primary. The thing is Buffalo has to be getting value back for the money they take on. The thing Buffalo doesn't want to take on is aging players with term, which is why Calgary might be attractive to them. I see two possible deals that could work.

To Buffalo: Tkachuk ($7M) + Monahan ($6.375) + Hanifin ($4.95) + 2021 1st - Total salary = $18.3M

To Calgary: Eichel $(10M) + Ristolainen ($5.4M) + Eakin ($2.25M) - Total salary = $17.6M

Or

To Buffalo: Tkachuk ($7M) + Lindholm ($4.85) + Hanifin ($4.95) + 2021 1st - Total salary = $16.8M

To Calgary: Eichel $(10M) + Reinhart ($5.2M) + Borgen (RFA, Est $1.5M) - Total salary = $16.7M

I think those deals could work and make some sense for both teams. The idea that Eichel, with his salary and his health issues, garnering a massive haul is unlikely. Deals have to make sense fiscally these days, and Eichel's $10M price tag is tough to swallow. If he was dominant like McDavid, then maybe. But he isn't. There's a lot of risk involved with taking Eichel on, and the NHL is turning into a league where risk aversion is a big things most teams consider.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by New Era

I see two possible deals that could work.

To Buffalo: Tkachuk ($7M) + Monahan ($6.375) + Hanifin ($4.95) + 2021 1st - Total salary = $18.3M

To Calgary: Eichel $(10M) + Ristolainen ($5.4M) + Eakin ($2.25M) - Total salary = $17.6M

Or

To Buffalo: Tkachuk ($7M) + Lindholm ($4.85) + Hanifin ($4.95) + 2021 1st - Total salary = $16.8M

To Calgary: Eichel $(10M) + Reinhart ($5.2M) + Borgen (RFA, Est $1.5M) - Total salary = $16.7M

I think those deals could work and make some sense for both teams. The idea that Eichel, with his salary and his health issues, garnering a massive haul is unlikely. Deals have to make sense fiscally these days, and Eichel's $10M price tag is tough to swallow. If he was dominant like McDavid, then maybe. But he isn't. There's a lot of risk involved with taking Eichel on, and the NHL is turning into a league where risk aversion is a big things most teams consider.

I don’t mind either deal but I do think they are unnecessarily over complicated. I don’t see the need for Monahan, Hanifin, Ristolinen, and Eakin in deal 1. I think it is far more simpler to take those pieces out and add someone like Valimaki and possibly another young player to close the deal.

The second trade also has no need to include Lindholm and Reinhart in the deal and again not sure why Hanifin needs to be in there? No idea who Borgen is so not sure if that is a throw in or good add.

I don’t mind either deal I just think there is a lot of added noise in there that just doesn’t need to be. Has there ever been a deal where teams were moving upwards of 17-18M or nearly 25% of a teams total salary cap in one move?

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Flames_F.T.W

Haha this sums up how I feel as well. It's not like we're risking anything. We already suck

Except we are. Based on some of the ideas floating around we are risking our future and the potential for the team to be anything but NHL fodder.

Let's paint a possible future outcome. Say you do trade for Eichel and it costs you your best prospects and picks. Say you lose Tkachuk and one of Monahan or Lindholm, along with Valimaki, Pelletier or Zary, or both, and then the 1st in this draft? That carves out the best hope in the system on the blueline, a position where we need to backfill Giordano. That also carves out your best prospects up front, where we are pretty thin. You also remove the best pick from a draft cycle where we need that pick to restock. Four players greatly needed to support Eichel are then removed from the system. There is nothing coming to support that supposed superstar you just acquired.

Then you have to look at the rest of the roster. Giordano is pretty much done. Big hole on the blueline. Johnny Hockey is coming up the UFA status. You think he's going to want to hang around this team when there is nothing coming to support the current roster? Nope. I don't care if Eichel is here, Gaudreau is looking elsewhere.

After that, how happy do you think Eichel will be? That leaves a roster of one of Monahan or Lindholm, Mangiapane, Dube, Backlund, and Lucic. Do you think he stands firm and is happy in the hinterlands of the NHL, or do you think he looks at the ####show and immediately demands a trade out, a la Chris Drury? At that point the franchise is majorly ####ed. Nothing on the roster, nothing in the system, and absolutely nothing to look forward to. We're talking expansion team poor.

So yeah, things could be a lot worse, which is why you have to think long term about these types of moves. You always have to hedge your bets should the trade go sideways. Trade for Eichel using assets from your roster, but don't trade your future. Not for a player who you control for only four or five years (depending on health).

[Roof-Daddy]

To me Lindholm is the only no go and that's because you want to have Eichel/Lindholm as your 1-2 center punch.

You also want to keep one of Johnny or Tkachuk to play on Eichels wing, preferably I'd want to keep Johnny if he signs an extension this off season.

[Mull]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

To me Lindholm is the only no go and that's because you want to have Eichel/Lindholm as your 1-2 center punch.

You also want to keep one of Johnny or Tkachuk to play on Eichels wing, preferably I'd want to keep Johnny if he signs an extension this off season.

Johnny's MTC next year is a 5 team trade list, dumb question, that means he can pick only 5 teams to be traded too? So deadline 2022 he could simply pick 4 bottom barrel teams and 1 contender, removing all leverage the flames have from negotiations, really picking the team he wants?

Or is it he can only cross off 5 teams?

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Mull

Johnny's MTC next year is a 5 team trade list, dumb question, that means he can pick only 5 teams to be traded too? So deadline 2022 he could simply pick 4 bottom barrel teams and 1 contender, removing all leverage the flames have from negotiations, really picking the team he wants?

Or is it he can only cross off 5 teams?

According to Capfriendly he list 5 teams that he CAN be traded to.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I don’t mind either deal but I do think they are unnecessarily over complicated. I don’t see the need for Monahan, Hanifin, Ristolinen, and Eakin in deal 1. I think it is far more simpler to take those pieces out and add someone like Valimaki and possibly another young player to close the deal.

The second trade also has no need to include Lindholm and Reinhart in the deal and again not sure why Hanifin needs to be in there? No idea who Borgen is so not sure if that is a throw in or good add.

I don’t mind either deal I just think there is a lot of added noise in there that just doesn’t need to be. Has there ever been a deal where teams were moving upwards of 17-18M or nearly 25% of a teams total salary cap in one move?

A deal for Eichel is going to be overly complicated. Salaries have to balance out. Values have balance out. Buffalo is going to want immediate returns, NOT magic beans, which is why Valimaki is not in the equation. Buffalo wants to be good right now, not hope a guy they get for their star player turns into something. That's what the 1st round pick is all about. Everything else is about immediate value because Buffalo wants to be competitive right now, not three to five years from now. You know, the same thing Calgary wants?

You put certain players into deals to make the value attractive on both sides. As the Sabres you have to know who you are trading away and what you are getting back is equitable. As the Flames, you're doing the same thing. As Buffalo, I'm looking to balance salary out but also looking to improve all positions possible. In deal one I'm getting back two assets I really want in Tkachuk and Hanifin. I'm taking on a lesser player in Monahan, but I'm giving back a less attractive asset in Ristolainen. I'm balancing out the salary in giving back Eakins. Overall this is a great deal for me (Buffalo) because I get back a #1 LW, a #2 C, a #2 D, and an early 1st. I've traken on some salary I may not want in Monahan, but I've dumped salary I don't want in Ristolainen. I've improved my immediate team even though I've given up the best player in the deal, and I've maintained my budget position.

In deal two I'm asking for the better player in Lindholm, so I have to sweeten the pot. Hence Reinhart being in the deal. Again, salaries and contracts have to even out, so the inclusion of Borgen, a youngish defenseman in the same vein as Valimaki. The Flames need soem youth and depth on the blueline, so if they are taking on a body, that is a good add. Like deal one, Buffalo gets the improvements they are looking for and Calgary gets a little more value for kicking in Lindholm over Monahan. These deals are about give and take and are going to be quite complicated. There is not going to be some simple deal out there where Buffalo has four players thrown at them for Eichel. Salaries and contracts are going to come into play. That's the reality of the NHL these days.

[Flames_F.T.W]

Originally Posted by New Era

Except we are. Based on some of the ideas floating around we are risking our future and the potential for the team to be anything but NHL fodder.

Let's paint a possible future outcome. Say you do trade for Eichel and it costs you your best prospects and picks. Say you lose Tkachuk and one of Monahan or Lindholm, along with Valimaki, Pelletier or Zary, or both, and then the 1st in this draft? That carves out the best hope in the system on the blueline, a position where we need to backfill Giordano. That also carves out your best prospects up front, where we are pretty thin. You also remove the best pick from a draft cycle where we need that pick to restock. Four players greatly needed to support Eichel are then removed from the system. There is nothing coming to support that supposed superstar you just acquired.

Then you have to look at the rest of the roster. Giordano is pretty much done. Big hole on the blueline. Johnny Hockey is coming up the UFA status. You think he's going to want to hang around this team when there is nothing coming to support the current roster? Nope. I don't care if Eichel is here, Gaudreau is looking elsewhere.

After that, how happy do you think Eichel will be? That leaves a roster of one of Monahan or Lindholm, Mangiapane, Dube, Backlund, and Lucic. Do you think he stands firm and is happy in the hinterlands of the NHL, or do you think he looks at the ####show and immediately demands a trade out, a la Chris Drury? At that point the franchise is majorly ####ed. Nothing on the roster, nothing in the system, and absolutely nothing to look forward to. We're talking expansion team poor.

So yeah, things could be a lot worse, which is why you have to think long term about these types of moves. You always have to hedge your bets should the trade go sideways. Trade for Eichel using assets from your roster, but don't trade your future. Not for a player who you control for only four or five years (depending on health).

All I'm saying is there's an elite, young, #1C available. That's the hardest thing in hockey to find. The vast majority of cup winners have a guy like Eichel. I think we should do whatever it takes to get him. Worry about everything else afterwards. And even if it blows up in our face, at least we tried to break the cycle of perpetual mediocrity by acquiring a guy who could be a franchise C.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Flames_F.T.W

All I'm saying is there's an elite, young, #1C available. That's the hardest thing in hockey to find. The vast majority of cup winners have a guy like Eichel. I think we should do whatever it takes to get him. Worry about everything else afterwards. And even if it blows up in our face, at least we tried to break the cycle of perpetual mediocrity by acquiring a guy who could be a franchise C.

Thinking like that is why franchises turn into the Buffalo Sabres and Edmonton Oilers. When you're running a hundred million dollar enterprise you have to keep your head firmly planted on your shoulders and recognize the current and future situations. You don't get to make rash decisions you hope work out. You need a plan and you need to have a long term strategy for success. One player does not make a team, nor does one player lead you to a championship. You need other talented players, and in the current NHL, you need young talent that is cost controlled and able to contribute. Without the latter you have nothing to work with and will be fodder for the rest of the league. You make this deal and it blows up in your face and you'll be wishing for those days of mediocrity. Being the punching bag for the other 31 teams, including an expansion team, is not a future anyone wants. If you #### up this deal, that's a good possibility.

[Flames_F.T.W]

Originally Posted by New Era

Thinking like that is why franchises turn into the Buffalo Sabres and Edmonton Oilers. When you're running a hundred million dollar enterprise you have to keep your head firmly planted on your shoulders and recognize the current and future situations. You don't get to make rash decisions you hope work out. You need a plan and you need to have a long term strategy for success. One player does not make a team, nor does one player lead you to a championship. You need other talented players, and in the current NHL, you need young talent that is cost controlled and able to contribute. Without the latter you have nothing to work with and will be fodder for the rest of the league. You make this deal and it blows up in your face and you'll be wishing for those days of mediocrity. Being the punching back for the other 31 teams , including an expansion team, is not a future anyone wants. If you #### up this deal, that's a good possibility.

Its been 30 years without a #1C and our franchise has absolutely nothing to show outside of a Cinderella run to the finals. I'm alright taking some chances and being a little reckless trying to acquire a guy of Eichel's calibre. The depth and talent needed to insulate Eichel is MUCH easier to come by than a guy like Eichel. We can fill those holes.
The "safe" approach has gotten us nowhere. The price for Eichel will be steep, but we won't have an AHL roster after the deal.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Flames_F.T.W

All I'm saying is there's an elite, young, #1C available. That's the hardest thing in hockey to find. The vast majority of cup winners have a guy like Eichel. I think we should do whatever it takes to get him. Worry about everything else afterwards. And even if it blows up in our face, at least we tried to break the cycle of perpetual mediocrity by acquiring a guy who could be a franchise C.

IF Eichel is that guy.

What if Eichel isn't the true elite #1 center people hope he is. Where does he rank in the NHL right now? Somewhere between 8-12?

This is probably the biggest area of concern. We aren't talking trading for McKinnon or McDavid.

Eichel MAY be that guy. Or he may be a guy coming off a serious injury and 2 goals who is a 30 goal 75 point player moving forward with injury risk.

This is a player going into his 7th season who's best year is 82 points.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by dino7c

As opposed to the pray to win the lottery plan. Eichel was a 2nd overall to McDavid. Blow it up and suck for 5 years and you probably don't get an Eichel.

I would go with the sure thing, if possible.

Sigh, having a high pick isn't praying for a lottery win. Spending that puck on Eichel is fine in of itself, adding multiple assets on top of that like Valimaki Pelletier, Zary and whoever else it takes is where all of you All of Nothing for eichel numpties have gone off the deep end.

This team straight up isn't good enough, deep enough to survive a trade like that and win a cup.


You think I'm stupid for wanting them to build this team up from the draft. Well newsflash hotshot, this is what happens when you spend draft capital when you think you're a contender. The last two years. Looks like a solid plan.

You're right, spending all the futures for a player is the answer. The proof is right there....

[ForeverFlameFan]

Don’t want to give up Lindholm. Eichel isn’t twice the player he is, so I’d rather keep our player under a steal of a deal.