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Old 12-21-2021, 04:01 PM   #6161
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Ohhh, Hinshaw suggesting an outdoor bonfire instead of indoors is a great idea...checks forecast..."WTAF IS WRONG WITH YOU!! HIGHs are -20C OR WORSE OVER NEXT WEEK OR THREE"
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Old 12-21-2021, 04:03 PM   #6162
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Right, the vaccine passport get pretty uncomfortable if we start layering on boosters and other things. I stand by that. Iím not a huge fan with the psychology of ďwe need to see your papersĒ every time we want to do things. Iím not exactly alone in that. Like, itís fine for the time being and as a temporary measure. But the longer this drags on, and frankly with the likely addition of a booster being added, it gets increasingly uncomfortable. Iíd feel better about that aspect if there was some discussion of when it could be removed.

And donít kid yourself, we know the booster and maybe boosters are being added here. We wonít have the uptake needed or wanted, so theyíll have to add the booster to the QR codes to push more people to get that done. If the Pfizer CEO comes out and says we need the 4th (heís already said this), then I guess we add that there as well. You seem to conflate these concerns with the actual needle though, and itís really not the issue at all.
Listen, if hospital counts go down and we no longer have the risk of cancelling life saving procedures in hospitals, I will be the first one to get onside with less restrictions. Until such a time that exists, I don't give a ##### about your feelings. The majority of people are following public health policy and until such a time the majority disagrees with you, tough luck. That's democracy working.

If its for the greater good to keep up to date with your vaccines and its the only way out of this, so be it. I am very curious to see what data comes out the next 30 days and how it directs policy. But to raise concern about a boosters and questioning them without having a better solution, sorry, you don't have any sympathy from me.
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Old 12-21-2021, 04:03 PM   #6163
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Azure where are you getting your hospitalization rates from right now? All I am seeing at the moment across Canada is relatively stable ICU numbers.
Hospitalization is different from ICU #s. You are correct that we are seeing stable ICUs numbers which is great.

This is Manitoba from today. The active hospitalization #s has been trending towards 50 / 50 for non vaccinated & double vaccinated for a while now. Unfortunately because our great province doesn't do a good job at explaining pre-existing conditions, we have no way of knowing what is going on beyond what we see here.

The ICU #s have been exactly the same for a while now which is great to see.

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Old 12-21-2021, 04:03 PM   #6164
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553 Cases on December 16 - 9,700 tests, 5.5% positivity
627 Cases on December 17 - 10,063 tests, 6.2% positivity
721 Cases on December 18 - 8,710 tests, 8.3% positivity
577 Cases on December 19 - 6,504 tests, 8.9% positivity
786 Cases on December 20 - 7305 tests, 10.8% positivity


Surprised the test number dropped, I heard they were swamped...
Waiting more then 24 hours for my test results.
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Old 12-21-2021, 04:05 PM   #6165
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Ohhh, Hinshaw suggesting an outdoor bonfire instead of indoors is a great idea...checks forecast..."WTAF IS WRONG WITH YOU!! HIGHs are -20C OR WORSE OVER NEXT WEEK OR THREE"
Hmmm, Omicron or frost bite...choices, choices!


I think I'll continue to hide in my basement.
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Old 12-21-2021, 04:06 PM   #6166
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Right, the vaccine passport get pretty uncomfortable if we start layering on boosters and other things. I stand by that. Iím not a huge fan with the psychology of ďwe need to see your papersĒ every time we want to do things. Iím not exactly alone in that. Like, itís fine for the time being and as a temporary measure. But the longer this drags on, and frankly with the likely addition of a booster being added, it gets increasingly uncomfortable. Iíd feel better about that aspect if there was some discussion of when it could be removed.

And donít kid yourself, we know the booster and maybe boosters are being added here. We wonít have the uptake needed or wanted, so theyíll have to add the booster to the QR codes to push more people to get that done. If the Pfizer CEO comes out and says we need the 4th (heís already said this), then I guess we add that there as well. You seem to conflate these concerns with the actual needle though, and itís really not the issue at all.
I don't get the logic in this. What's uncomfortable about following suggested protocols to keep trying to keep this down? If we see data that suggests that boosters help in that regards, then lets go.

Do you prefer we enter into a situation like the 4th wave, where the government did basically nothing, paid people to get vaccinated, and then we watch the hospital system get overrun, surgeries cancelled, and the unvaccinated dying at 20-30 a day? That seems far more uncomfortable and impacting than having to "show your papers" to travel, attending sporting events, etc.
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Old 12-21-2021, 04:07 PM   #6167
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Booster uptake is going to less than the 2nd dose uptake. Governments already know this.

We can assume that 4th shot and onward uptake will be even less.

Now we are seeing a lot of breakthrough cases with Omicron. 76% of the positive tests in Manitoba today were from fully vaccinated people. 43% of active hospitalizations are fully vaccinated people. Yes I know that if most of the people are vaccinated, it means most of the positive tests will be vaccinated people. But the hospitalization rates are concerning, and public health needs to address that properly.

These are things that people are wondering about, and I don't get why everyone gets jumped on for asking about it. Everyone is concerned. Questions are going to be asked. No need to jump on everyone. Slava is not an anti-vaxxer. Jeepers.

At this point i don't think there is reason to believe that vaccines will have long term efficacy regardless of how many we take. Getting the 3rd one will have short term effects but it's already too late to prevent the Omicron wave. Israel is already offering their older popuation the 4th shot.

I have a covid diagnosis plus 2 vaccines, so 3 total immunity building events. Yet i am in isolation currently awaiting a most likely positive test. If that doesn't provide any long term immunity its highly unlikely 3 shots will.
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Old 12-21-2021, 04:11 PM   #6168
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I don't think anyone cares if the unvaccinated are dying at a rate of hundreds per day as long as the health care system isn't overwhelmed.

There are two things I'm watching. Overall hospital & ICU rates, and the rate of double vaccinated peoples in the hospitals. If both go up, the definition of fully vaccinated will have to change to include the booster shot, and mandates are going to be put into place again. Unfortunately with almost guaranteed slow uptake on the booster, that is not going to go over very well.

Perhaps we should have spent some of the $600 billion that we spent on COVID relief at alleviating the strain on the health care system so we're not back to square 1 again.
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Old 12-21-2021, 04:19 PM   #6169
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Listen, if hospital counts go down and we no longer have the risk of cancelling life saving procedures in hospitals, I will be the first one to get onside with less restrictions. Until such a time that exists, I don't give a ##### about your feelings. The majority of people are following public health policy and until such a time the majority disagrees with you, tough luck. That's democracy working.

If its for the greater good to keep up to date with your vaccines and its the only way out of this, so be it. I am very curious to see what data comes out the next 30 days and how it directs policy. But to raise concern about a boosters and questioning them without having a better solution, sorry, you don't have any sympathy from me.
Haha, Iím not looking for sympathy at all. Are you just incapable of reading any dissenting view? You seem awfully worked up because I questioned whether uptake would be as high, and whether that would be a problem.

Iím a little surprised that my bit of discomfort with the passport gets you this excited though. I donít think itís outlandish to see that weíre likely going to have to add more things to the vaccine passport, and people start to wonder where it ends. Maybe next year we should have the flu shot? I mean thatís to keep people safe also?
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Old 12-21-2021, 04:20 PM   #6170
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At this point i don't think there is reason to believe that vaccines will have long term efficacy regardless of how many we take. Getting the 3rd one will have short term effects but it's already too late to prevent the Omicron wave. Israel is already offering their older popuation the 4th shot.

I have a covid diagnosis plus 2 vaccines, so 3 total immunity building events. Yet i am in isolation currently awaiting a most likely positive test. If that doesn't provide any long term immunity its highly unlikely 3 shots will.
It doesn't even matter if the booster is very effective because a large portion of the population is not eligible. Israel and other countries are stripping down the dates between the 2nd & booster in order to get more uptake quicker. Is that wise? Everything we've seen seems to indicate that the 6 month increment has been beneficial, but at this point it makes sense to allow your vulnerable to get a booster given the situation.

For those that can get it, especially the vulnerable, it should be a pretty easy situation, but for those of us who have to wait another month or longer, unfortunately until then Omicron will more than likely have moved on already if the data we are seeing from SA, Denmark and the UK in terms of cases peaking is true.

I'm in a similar position as you are.
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Old 12-21-2021, 04:22 PM   #6171
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Is there any data anywhere that shows how folks whom are AZ>Pfizer>Pfizer are making out?
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Old 12-21-2021, 04:25 PM   #6172
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I'm interested to see how this plays out. Canadians were (largely) willing to get vaccinated to stop this, but I do wonder if they're willing to keep going every 3-4 months? It seems like a big ask, particularly if the latest variant is as mild as things suggest.

And yeah, they could just "add this" to the current passports. But truthfully...that starts to get pretty uncomfortable for me.
Anecdotally, it would appear that Canadians are very willing to get their boosters and people are actually upset in BC that the province won't do what other provinces are doing and opening up boosters for everyone. I think your position is probably in the minority overall for Canadians.
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Old 12-21-2021, 04:26 PM   #6173
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Iím stuck at work, anyone kind enough to summarize the Presser ?
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Old 12-21-2021, 04:27 PM   #6174
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Nothing announced today impacts our Christmas plans, everything we were doing falls within the rules.

If you thought the Restrictions Exemption Program was a stupid name before, look at all the restrictions that those businesses are no longer exempt from. All the changes that were announced today:

Indoor entertainment, event and recreation facilities (Effective Dec 24 at 12:01am)
Indoor facilities that participate in the Restrictions Exemption Program:
  • Must limit capacity to:
  • 50% if venue seats more than 1,000 people.
  • 500 people if venue seats between 500 and 1,000 people.
  • No food and drink consumption in seated audience settings or during intermissions in the above mentioned venues.
  • No capacity or food/drink change for venues under 500 people.

Restaurants, cafes, bars, pubs and nightclubs
The following applies to businesses that participate in the Restrictions Exemption Program (Effective Dec 24 at 12:01am):
  • Limit of 10 people maximum per table. No mingling between tables.
  • No interactive activities (For example: dancing, darts, billiards)
  • Liquor service ends at 11pm and must close at 12:30am.

Workplace gatherings
  • Albertans should refrain from workplace social gatherings.

Masks and physical distancing
  • Masking and 2 metres physical distancing are mandatory in all indoor public spaces, workplaces, and places of worship.
  • Employees must mask in all indoor work settings, except while alone in work stations.
  • Masks are still required in places that implement the Restrictions Exemption Program.
  • Masks should fit well and be of high quality. People at risk of severe outcomes should wear medical masks when in settings with people outside of their household.

------

Good to see we're back to mandating things that don't make a difference, like ending liquor service early.
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Old 12-21-2021, 04:29 PM   #6175
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Haha, Iím not looking for sympathy at all. Are you just incapable of reading any dissenting view? You seem awfully worked up because I questioned whether uptake would be as high, and whether that would be a problem.

Iím a little surprised that my bit of discomfort with the passport gets you this excited though. I donít think itís outlandish to see that weíre likely going to have to add more things to the vaccine passport, and people start to wonder where it ends. Maybe next year we should have the flu shot? I mean thatís to keep people safe also?
Sorry - but that's not how your initial statement came off. It does not insinuate whether uptake would be as high. If that was what you meant, fine - sorry for the misunderstanding.

As for my excitement about discomfort with passports, I wouldn't say its excitement. Its more frustration with people playing the same card - 'slippery slope', 'freedom', etc. It will end when there is no longer a systematic risk to our healthcare system - its not about keeping from getting sick. Its about our healthcare system collapsing. Now, if we really wanted to get into further discussions, It would be an interesting topic comparing our healthcare system versus the US and how the US seems more resilient. Has the pandemic shown how fragile universal healthcare it? Is it better to follow the US model? The case could certainly be made.
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Old 12-21-2021, 04:29 PM   #6176
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Any changes to WFH?
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Old 12-21-2021, 04:30 PM   #6177
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Any changes to WFH?
Unchanged.

Mandatory measure - Effective Sept. 16
  • Mandatory work-from-home measures are in place unless the employer has determined a physical presence is required for operational effectiveness.
  • If employees are working on location, they must mask in all indoor settings, except while alone in work stations.

Basically, you work from home unless your employer wants you to come in, then GFY, go into the office or quit.
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Old 12-21-2021, 04:31 PM   #6178
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Anecdotally, it would appear that Canadians are very willing to get their boosters and people are actually upset in BC that the province won't do what other provinces are doing and opening up boosters for everyone. I think your position is probably in the minority overall for Canadians.
My ďpositionĒ is that booster uptake is not going to be high enough. That doesnít mean I wonít be getting the booster. I was fully vaccinated when I was allowed to be. My issues here are with (a) the fact we know that uptake is not going to be high enough and (B) that the probable solution will mean restrictions in the shorter term, eased by the slippery slope of adding the booster to the vaccine passport.
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Old 12-21-2021, 04:32 PM   #6179
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Good to see we're back to mandating things that don't make a difference, like ending liquor service early.
Everyone knows that COVID has the same rules as gremlins.

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Old 12-21-2021, 04:34 PM   #6180
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Anecdotally, it would appear that Canadians are very willing to get their boosters and people are actually upset in BC that the province won't do what other provinces are doing and opening up boosters for everyone. I think your position is probably in the minority overall for Canadians.
There wasn't enough people willing to get their 2nd shot to avoid the situation we're in now.
Even if 100% of those double dosed people are willing to get the booster, it's still not enough.

And I don't see any way 100% of people who had 2 shots will get 3, there's logically going to be some drop off.
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