Coronavirus All Purpose Thread: The unnecessary Dumb Dumb 4th wave

[vegasbound]

Originally Posted by Azure

I'm also seeing a lot of people who are double vaccinated and are being refused entry to see their family who might be in the hospital and it is heartbreaking.

Almost all of us will have someone in our immediate or extended family who needs care, either just a hospital visit, emergency, ICU, etc.

A double vaccinated person can't even take their crying child into the emergency and sit with them if they need stitches, or an x-ray for a broken wrist.

Um.... I've visited my mom everyday on a highly immunocompromised unit at PLC and Foothills. No problem getting into ICU either last weekend.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Azure

I'm also seeing a lot of people who are double vaccinated and are being refused entry to see their family who might be in the hospital and it is heartbreaking.

Almost all of us will have someone in our immediate or extended family who needs care, either just a hospital visit, emergency, ICU, etc.

A double vaccinated person can't even take their crying child into the emergency and sit with them if they need stitches, or an x-ray for a broken wrist.

I don’t know where you’re getting your info but I have a relative in the hospital at foothills and we have had zero problems visiting.

[calgaryred]

In BC as long as your vaccinated your allowed to visit family in hospitals

Sent from my SM-A105M using Tapatalk

[Amethyst]

We are restricted from visiting family members in hospital. Good for those of you who could, but not everyone can!

My dad was in the hospital for six weeks this past summer, waiting for and then recovering from, major heart surgery. I was not allowed to visit (fully vaccinated). He was allowed two visitors and it had to be the same two visitors the entire time. That was my mom and my brother (who drove my mom and stayed with her as they lived out of town). The nurse tried to get me swapped out for my brother one day and was firmly told no. If we did that, my brother could never go back on the list. And since he and my mom were likely staying there for a couple more weeks, that didn’t make sense.

My cousin’s son broke his leg and his dad was allowed to go in (as the first parent to arrive) while his mom had to wait in a car in the parking lot.

These situations are not as bad as early on, when no one was allowed in, but they are certainly not normal and they are distressing for those involved.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Azure

Fair enough. But there are encouraging signs for sure. Especially if you think that this was probably out long before it was properly detected.



https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ter_mailonline

I’m not sure the WHOs statement is worth anything. No person confirmed to have Omicron has died is a lot different than no person with Omicron has died.

Also the Omicron being everywhere for a while I think is a red herring given how early Covid waves work. going from 1-10 cases will be much more random as many people don’t infect anyone and others become superspreaders so early on in an outbreak you don’t get the smooth exponential growth you see later. Hospitalizations Guetang being up significantly work against the value in the WHOs statement. But without denominators none of it is meaningful.

So I guess I see all these positive statements as people hoping it will be all right. The doomsayers are basically the same thing.

It’s more contagious than Delta among low vaccine populations, I think that is about all we know.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Amethyst

We are restricted from visiting family members in hospital. Good for those of you who could, but not everyone can!

My dad was in the hospital for six weeks this past summer, waiting for and then recovering from, major heart surgery. I was not allowed to visit (fully vaccinated). He was allowed two visitors and it had to be the same two visitors the entire time. That was my mom and my brother (who drove my mom and stayed with her as they lived out of town). The nurse tried to get me swapped out for my brother one day and was firmly told no. If we did that, my brother could never go back on the list. And since he and my mom were likely staying there for a couple more weeks, that didn’t make sense.

My cousin’s son broke his leg and his dad was allowed to go in (as the first parent to arrive) while his mom had to wait in a car in the parking lot.

These situations are not as bad as early on, when no one was allowed in, but they are certainly not normal and they are distressing for those involved.

Well things have changed a lot since the summer. No one is denying that visitation has previously been restricted.

[Amethyst]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Well things have changed a lot since the summer. No one is denying that visitation has previously been restricted.

Well, someone here was claiming summer was normal. It sure as hell wasn't and it sure as hell isn't now.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by chedder

Sad that this may be happening but in the past 2 weeks I've taken my daughter to hospital for an xray and visited my aunt in a long term care facility. Is the visitation/accompaniment hit or miss?

Here in Manitoba various hospitals have policies in place where no visitation & emergency room access is allowed even if you are double vaccinated.

Other hospitals allow a primary care person to be there during certain hours regardless of vaccination status as long as they get tested everyday. Others don't.

I have some friends who had to take sick parents / kids with emergencies to to the local hospital, and you are only allowed to drop them off and then you have to leave. Doesn't matter what the vaccination status is.

It is heartbreaking. Kids are crying, parents are frustrated and arguing, and the nurses are trying to make the best of a screwed up policy.

With the recent surge in COVID cases, many people who should be going to the hospital are avoiding it as long as possible because of this situation, and end up being rushed because of emergencies. Especially when the blood oxygen levels can fall down very quickly, and from what I've seen, the severe symptoms from Delta can creep up on people very quickly.

There are consequences to these policies. Common sense has gone out of the window.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

I don’t know where you’re getting your info but I have a relative in the hospital at foothills and we have had zero problems visiting.

Well isn't that great for you.

I suppose the rest of us who haven't been able to do that are lying?

Screw off.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by GGG

I don’t think you provided context.

I think you implied the conclusion that Omicron is not that bad without evidence/vaccines still prevent severe disease without evidence.

Uncertainty is uncomfortable but it’s where we are.

I could have just said "Quit being an Eeyore" but I felt pointing them to the article they didn't read linked in the tweet where it said that so far there were no incidences of severe illness amongst those cases was more helpful.

Uncertainty is uncomfortable, sure, but you can hold a position in uncertainty without also being a pessimist about what the outcome may be.

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Well things have changed a lot since the summer. No one is denying that visitation has previously been restricted.

Azure is in Manitoba. Visitation is still restricted there.

When one of my aunts (also in Winnipeg) went into the hospital a couple months ago, only one of her adult children was allowed to go in and visit her, the rest of them had to have a Facebook video call instead. And that was the last time they got to see their mother, as my aunt passed away late the next day.

More recently, an old acquaintance from Winnipeg has been having some weird brain issues at the ripe old age of 37, so he's been in and out of the hospital for a couple months now and posting Instagram stories about his experience. What he has been saying is basically what Azure is saying, virtually zero visitation is allowed and it's completely miserable.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Azure

Well isn't that great for you.

I suppose the rest of us who haven't been able to do that are lying?

Screw off.

Or you could just respond without having a meltdown?

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Amethyst

Well, someone here was claiming summer was normal. It sure as hell wasn't and it sure as hell isn't now.

Well, yeah that’s different. I was responding to OP who said you still can’t visit in hospitals, which is clearly not the case here.

[Rubicant]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

I could have just said "Quit being an Eeyore" but I felt pointing them to the article they didn't read linked in the tweet where it said that so far there were no incidences of severe illness amongst those cases was more helpful.

Uncertainty is uncomfortable, sure, but you can hold a position in uncertainty without also being a pessimist about what the outcome may be.

A few things:

I did read the article - I just didn't find it that comforting that in an event that recent there weren't any severe illnesses yet. It would obviously be great if that stayed the case and this new variant was less severe than prior ones.

In fairness, I don't think I asked my original question well. I was more looking for evidence from other sources that I might not have seen that show a more positive outlook for immune escape and transmissibility even in these early days where evidence is still being compiled. That said, I'm not sure why the snark is necessary.

[Azure]

Bit more news from SA.

The main observation that we have made over the last two weeks is that the majority of patients in the COVID wards have not been oxygen dependent. SARS-CoV-2 has been an incidental finding in patients that were admitted to the hospital for another medical, surgical or obstetric reason.

A snapshot of 42 patients in the ward on 2 December 2021 reveals that 29 (70%) are not oxygen dependent. These patients are saturating well on room air and do not present with any respiratory symptoms. These are the patients that we would call ‘incidental COVID admissions’, having had another medical or surgical reason for admission. Thirteen (13) patients are dependent on supplemental oxygen of which nine (21%) have a diagnosis of COVID-19 pneumonia based on a combination of symptoms, clinical signs, CXR and inflammatory markers. All are being prescribed steroids as the mainstay of therapy. The remaining 4 patients are on oxygen for other medical reasons (2 previously on home oxygen, 1 in heart failure and 1 with a confirmed diagnosis of Pneumocystis Pneumonia).

This is a picture that has not been seen in previous waves. In the beginning of all three previous waves and throughout the course of these waves, there has always only been a sprinkling of patients on room air in the COVID ward and these patients have usually been in the recovery phase waiting for the resolution of a co-morbidity prior to discharge. The COVID ward was recognizable by the majority of patients being on some form of oxygen supplementation with the incessant sound of high flow nasal oxygen machines, or beeping ventilator alarms.

There are only 4 patients in high care and one in the ICU. The numbers of patients in high care on double oxygen, High Flow Nasal Oxygen or non-invasive ventilation (NIV) were noticeably higher in previous waves. This is anecdotal but confirmed by numerous clinicians who have previously worked in the COVID wards in the hospital complex.

Of 38 adults in the COVID wards on 2 December 2021, 6 were vaccinated, 24 were unvaccinated and 8 had unknown vaccination status. Of 9 patients with COVID pneumonia 8 are unvaccinated, 1 is a child. Only a single patient on oxygen was fully vaccinated but the reason for the oxygen was Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease.

A significant early finding in this analysis is the much shorter average length of stay of 2.8 days for SARS-CoV-2 positive patients admitted to the COVID wards over the last two weeks compared to an average length of stay of 8.5 days for the past 18 months. The NICD reports a similar shorter length of stay for all hospitals in Tshwane in its weekly report. It is also less than the Gauteng or National average length of stay reported by the NICD in previous waves.

In summary, the first impression on examination of the 166 patients admitted since the Omicron variant made an appearance, together with the snapshot of the clinical profile of 42 patients currently in the COVID wards at the SBAH/TDH complex, is that the majority of hospital admissions are for diagnoses unrelated to COVID-19. The SARS-CoV-2 positivity is an incidental finding in these patients and is largely driven by hospital policy requiring testing of all patients requiring admission to the hospital.

Using the proportion of patients on room air as a marker for incidental COVID admission as opposed to severe COVID (pneumonia), 76% of patients at the SBAH/TDH complex are incidental COVID admissions. This very unusual picture is also occurring at other hospitals in Gauteng. On 3 December Helen Joseph Hospital had 37 patients in the COVID wards of whom 31 were on room air (83%); and the Dr George Mukhari Academic Hospital had 80 patients of which 14 were on supplemental oxygen and 1 on a ventilator (81% on room air).

https://www.samrc.ac.za/news/tshwane...-features?s=03

Some continued good signs.

Shorter hospital stay across the board. 2.8 days compared to 8.5 days with previous variants.

Unvaccinated make up the majority of patients, but there are still not more adverse results so far. Could be due to prior infection, or not good data on vaccination rates compared to the people who have tested positive, as this isn't stated clearly I don't think.

Majority of patients are not there for COVID related reasons. COVID is obviously being tested for all hospital admittance, and then being discovered. Which leads to people not realizing they have it.

Most COVID patients do not need assisted breathing compared to previous waves where this was more prevalent.

Summary.

The relatively low number of COVID-19 pneumonia hospitalizations in the general, high care and ICU wards constitutes a very different picture compared to the beginning of previous waves. A detailed analysis comparing the current picture with previous waves is still being conducted. This may very well be related to the early upswing of the fourth wave, with the more classical pattern becoming evident over the next two weeks. What is clear though is that the age profile is different from previous waves. It may be that this is a vaccination effect as 57 % of people over the age of 50 have been vaccinated in the province compared to 34% in the 18-to-49-year group.

[Amethyst]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Well, yeah that’s different. I was responding to OP who said you still can’t visit in hospitals, which is clearly not the case here.

It is not clearly the case. YOU had a different experience. Good for you. Immediately after I couldn't visit hospitals, even patients were being turned away due to the 4th wave. If someone got in today, they certainly shouldn't feel any certainty that we are in a place where they won't be turned away tomorrow.

[Rubicant]

https://www.reuters.com/business/hea...us-2021-12-03/

Very early and speculative, but if omicron does turn out less deadly maybe this is why?

(It appears to have picked up some genetics from a common cold virus.)

[Azure]

The omicron variant is likely to have picked up genetic material from another virus that causes the common cold in humans, according to a new preliminary study, prompting one of its authors to suggest omicron could have greater transmissibility but lower virulence than other variants of the coronavirus.

Researchers from Nference, a Cambridge, Mass.-based firm that analyzes biomedical information, sequenced omicron and found a snippet of genetic code that is also present in a virus that can bring about a cold. They say this particular mutation could have occurred in a host simultaneously infected by SARS-CoV-2, also known as the novel coronavirus, and the HCoV-229E coronavirus, which can cause the common cold. The shared genetic code with HCoV-229E has not been detected in other novel coronavirus variants, the scientists said.

The study is in preprint and has not been peer-reviewed.

The “striking” similarity between omicron and HCoV-229E could have made the former “more accustomed to human hosts” and likely to evade some immune system responses, said Venky Soundararajan, a biological engineer who co-wrote the study.

“By virtue of omicron adopting this insertion … it is essentially taking a leaf out of the seasonal coronaviruses’ page, which [explains] … how it lives and transmits more efficiently with human beings,” he said.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/med...ays/ar-AARscA9

[Azure]

It just occurred to me that if that is actually the case, the irony is quite funny.

For 2 years many people have said its nothing more than a common cold, and now this. Wild.

[Mickey76]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Well, yeah that’s different. I was responding to OP who said you still can’t visit in hospitals, which is clearly not the case here.

We were limited to one designated visitor. So none of my siblings or I could visit my mother as my Dad was the designated visitor. But hey visiting your dying mother is a privilege not a right so it’s all good.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Azure

It just occurred to me that if that is actually the case, the irony is quite funny.

For 2 years many people have said its nothing more than a common cold, and now this. Wild.

I mean technically, that genetic sequence also occurs in HIV. And in 750 different parts of the human genome. So it's hard to say where it really came from.