Coronavirus All Purpose Thread: The unnecessary Dumb Dumb 4th wave

[Amethyst]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

But once enough people are vaccinated (or have acquired antibodies a stupider way...)

Not everybody who got covid was stupid. Some of us were forced to work in high risk environments while the government refused to allow us to be vaccinated.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Amethyst

Not everybody who got covid was stupid. Some of us were forced to work in high risk environments while the government refused to allow us to be vaccinated.

Totally agree - didn't mean to imply otherwise.

Was only referring to those who have refused to get antibodies from being vaccinated (and who will essentially all be getting antibodies a different way).

Lots of people got covid prior to vaccines being available to them, or got breakthrough cases after being vaccinated. Obviously that's tragic - not stupid.

[Knut]

Dr. Markland with an easy to understand explanation of the Delta Variant and how Vaccination helps.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1...613683725.html

This is why you want a fast immune system rather than a really strong one. How do you speed up you immune system? Training. With natural immunity you would rely on your innate immune system to defend the walls until your humoral immune system could place their antibody archers.
That usually takes a couple of weeks. That time is saved by vaccination and preformed antibodies. The more antibodies present the earlier the disease is snuffed out.

[slayer]

Both players that received the positive test results are fully vaccinated in accordance with the WHL mandatory vaccination policy.
https://whl.ca/article/whl-announces...t-and-spokane#

[curves2000]

Is it just me or are NHL players and athletes in general having more breakthrough infections than we would have thought given their status?

We are talking about mostly 20 and 30 year old elite athletic males who are double vaxxed and are coming down with minor disease symptoms. I understand that the purpose of being vaxxed is to keep you out of hospital and from severe disease, I just figured that this segment of the population would be less prone to symptoms and than others in the general population.

[accord1999]

Originally Posted by curves2000

Is it just me or are NHL players and athletes in general having more breakthrough infections than we would have thought given their status?

Testing bias perhaps? Reading the NHL document on their COVID protocol, fully vaccinated players are still getting tested every 72 hours which may be catching the asymptomatic cases that the general population would not bother testing for.



https://media.nhl.com/site/asset/pub...IDProtocol.pdf

[Dion]

Former NSW Premier Believes Anti-Vaxxers Should Be Stripped Of Medicare Access

A former New South Wales Premier believes Australia should follow Singapore's lead and ban anti-vaxxers from accessing government-funded healthcare.

Singapore recently ruled that people who have personally objected to getting the Covid-19 vaccine are putting a disproportionate strain on the country's hospital system and that's not fair.

While it might be a controversial decision, Bob Carr reckons Australia should do the same.

It might not happen in Australia but it's certainly happening in Singapore as the country sees a spike in the number of daily Covid-19 cases.

More than 90,000 people have tested positive for the virus in the past month and the country recently recorded its 500th death since the pandemic began.

More than 85 per cent people living in the country have received both doses of the vaccine and now Singapore has issued a warning to those who haven't got a jab yet.

The Ministry of Health wrote: "Currently, unvaccinated persons make up a sizeable majority of those who require intensive inpatient care, and disproportionately contribute to the strain on our healthcare resources.

"Hence, from 8 December 2021, we will begin charging COVID-19 patients who are unvaccinated by choice.

"This will apply to all unvaccinated COVID-19 patients admitted on or after 8 December 2021 to hospitals and CTFs. COVID-19 medical bills for those who are ineligible for vaccination will still be fully paid for by the government, i.e. children under 12 years old or medically ineligible persons."

https://www.ladbible.com/news/latest...ccess-20211111

[jayswin]

I'm for almost anything against those that will not get vaccinated, but I just can't bring myself, in Canada, to support loss of free access to health care. No matter how stupid that choice is.

Do we deny someone, or charge, because they did something stupid while drinking? Do we want to go down that road? Imo, no. As stupid as these people are, one thing I will always love about our country is that a millionaire and homeless person can walk into a hospital with an urgent problem and leave with the same care and same bill.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by jayswin

I'm for almost anything against those that will not get vaccinated, but I just can't bring myself, in Canada, to support loss of free access to health care. No matter how stupid that choice is.

Do we deny someone, or charge, because they did something stupid while drinking? Do we want to go down that road? Imo, no. As stupid as these people are, one thing I will always love about our country is that a millionaire and homeless person can walk into a hospital with an urgent problem and leave with the same care and same bill.

Yup, and it is scary that people think it is the right move.

I am glad our governments both federal & provincial have some common sense.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by jayswin

I'm for almost anything against those that will not get vaccinated, but I just can't bring myself, in Canada, to support loss of free access to health care. No matter how stupid that choice is.

Do we deny someone, or charge, because they did something stupid while drinking? Do we want to go down that road? Imo, no. As stupid as these people are, one thing I will always love about our country is that a millionaire and homeless person can walk into a hospital with an urgent problem and leave with the same care and same bill.

Ya, it's a tough one. I wouldn't be against a covid health tax for the unvacinated though, if they can afford it (over a certain income level). If you get vaccinated before needing the hospital for care, you get it rebated.

These people make an active choice that costs immense amounts of money. On CBC radio they said each ICU patient costs on average $50,000. There are also all the hospitalized non-icu, plus the long term care costs for them, and the costs of overtime and delayed surgeries. I don't think it's a stretch to be able to justify charging unvaxed for the costs they choose to inflict on us. The tax bill will never cover the real costs, but it provides incentive, and some cost recovery.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Ya, it's a tough one. I wouldn't be against a covid health tax for the unvacinated though, if they can afford it (over a certain income level). If you get vaccinated before needing the hospital for care, you get it rebated.

These people make an active choice that costs immense amounts of money. On CBC radio they said each ICU patient costs on average $50,000. There are also all the hospitalized non-icu, plus the long term care costs for them, and the costs of overtime and delayed surgeries. I don't think it's a stretch to be able to justify charging unvaxed for the costs they choose to inflict on us. The tax bill will never cover the real costs, but it provides incentive, and some cost recovery.

I'm against the idea of charging unvaccinated people. The only way I could be onboard with that notion was if vaccination was 100% effective at keeping people out of the hospital and ICU. It is highly effective but vaccinated people still end up in the ICU.

If we want to open up the system to charging people for their actions, related health conditions and needs we might as well just swing the pendulum all the way to the other side and have a private, user fee based system.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Ya, it's a tough one. I wouldn't be against a covid health tax for the unvacinated though, if they can afford it (over a certain income level). If you get vaccinated before needing the hospital for care, you get it rebated.

These people make an active choice that costs immense amounts of money. On CBC radio they said each ICU patient costs on average $50,000. There are also all the hospitalized non-icu, plus the long term care costs for them, and the costs of overtime and delayed surgeries. I don't think it's a stretch to be able to justify charging unvaxed for the costs they choose to inflict on us. The tax bill will never cover the real costs, but it provides incentive, and some cost recovery.

I am in favor of doing everything we can to push and prod people to try and get vaccinated or follow restrictions, health guidelines, etc. Mandates seem to work, but they cannot be permanent and should be seen as a 'this is what we need to do because you guys don't listen' solution.

As for the tax, diabetes, smoking, obesity.....these things cost our health care system hundreds of billions of dollars per year. Are you okay with taxing those people as well?

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Azure

I am in favor of doing everything we can to push and prod people to try and get vaccinated or follow restrictions, health guidelines, etc. Mandates seem to work, but they cannot be permanent and should be seen as a 'this is what we need to do because you guys don't listen' solution.

As for the tax, diabetes, smoking, obesity.....these things cost our health care system hundreds of billions of dollars per year. Are you okay with taxing those people as well?

Smokers are taxed. Taxes on cigarettes have been increasing for years. And they pay more for life insurance.

I also think unhealthy food should be more expensive than healthy food, but our entire food industry is designed around the opposite thought. So that’s a hard one to fix. The root problem needs a fix, not the people who are getting their families happy meals because it’s cheaper than alternatives. I’d be all for pop having cigarette level taxes on it.

[Dan02]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Smokers are taxed. Taxes on cigarettes have been increasing for years. And they pay more for life insurance.

Alcohol as well. Significant cost to the health system, significant taxes on alcohol sales.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Azure

As for the tax, diabetes, smoking, obesity.....these things cost our health care system hundreds of billions of dollars per year. Are you okay with taxing those people as well?

It's already happening. About 70% of the cost of cigarettes is taxes, sugary foods/drinks and snack foods are some of the only food that's not sales tax exempt (so essentially a 12-14% tax in most of the country), and some places are introducing additional surtaxes for sugary foods and drinks.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by opendoor

It's already happening. About 70% of the cost of cigarettes is taxes, sugary foods/drinks and snack foods are some of the only food that's not sales tax exempt (so essentially a 12-14% tax in most of the country), and some places are introducing additional surtaxes for sugary foods and drinks.

Fair enough. I am in favor of taxing smoking because of the costs to the healthcare system which are going to continue rising despite less people smoking.

What about obesity? Diabetes? Heart & cardiovascular disease?

Costs are estimated to be anywhere between $25 billion + per year if you account for all 3, with costs rising strongly per year in 2022? Are we going to start taxing that as well?

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by opendoor

It's already happening. About 70% of the cost of cigarettes is taxes, sugary foods/drinks and snack foods are some of the only food that's not sales tax exempt (so essentially a 12-14% tax in most of the country), and some places are introducing additional surtaxes for sugary foods and drinks.

I think NFLD just introduced a sugar tax recently and it is pretty hefty.

[Azure]

In fact if you are obese and not vaccinated you are significantly more likely to end up in the hospital, so I say we should tax those people twice as much because of the higher cost they present to the system.

In fact maybe we should create a credit system where if you fall into categories you pay less taxes.

Healthy and fit? Less taxes.
Double vaccinated? Less taxes.
Double vaccinated & booster shots? Less taxes.
No pre-existing conditions? Less taxes.
No diabetes? Less taxes.
No heart disease? Less taxes.


Why stop with COVID vaccinations?

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

Totally agree - didn't mean to imply otherwise.

Was only referring to those who have refused to get antibodies from being vaccinated (and who will essentially all be getting antibodies a different way).

Lots of people got covid prior to vaccines being available to them, or got breakthrough cases after being vaccinated. Obviously that's tragic - not stupid.

It was obvious, but the two thanks on that post are hilarious. Just couldn’t wait to jump on it.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Azure

Fair enough. I am in favor of taxing smoking because of the costs to the healthcare system which are going to continue rising despite less people smoking.

What about obesity? Diabetes? Heart & cardiovascular disease?

Costs are estimated to be anywhere between $25 billion + per year if you account for all 3, with costs rising strongly per year in 2022? Are we going to start taxing that as well?

Junk food is already taxed at 12-14% in most of the country and some places are adding to that. But people can be obese while eating almost any kind of food, so obviously it's almost impossible to fix that through taxes.

And of course you could just turn the whole thing around and just do tax breaks instead of fees. Give tax deductions for exercise equipment, gym memberships, etc. And if you're talking about vaccination, give a tax break for people who are vaccinated while simultaneously raising taxes on the bottom bracket. That'd achieve the same thing.

I'm not even saying I'd support taxing people for not getting vaccinated; it probably won't serve any real purpose in the long run. But it's not out of the question or totally at odds with current tax policy on other behaviors.