Coronavirus All Purpose Thread: The unnecessary Dumb Dumb 4th wave

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by opendoor

You realize the "serious vaccine injuries" in the trial had nothing to do with the vaccine, right? There were 5 serious adverse events that were identified in the trial (4 in the vaccine group and 1 in the placebo) and they included the following:

1 case of infective arthritis (joint infection cause by bacteria)
3 bone fractures (2 in vaccine group and 1 in the placebo)
1 ingestion of a penny (seriously)

Interesting. I did not read that far. And now I can't find the study again.



I'll still let more people guinea pig for this little trial before I subject my daughter to it. The adverse reactions in the older children which they anticipate in smaller numbers for the younger ones are worrying enough.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by opendoor

But you presented it as a dichotomy; essentially "don't waste your time thinking about increasing vaccination rates in the population. Instead, start exercising and eating healthier." You can do both. I exercise 5-6 days a week, but that doesn't mean I don't think we should do everything we can to get everyone vaccinated.

If you are vaccinated, there isn't much else YOU can do other than reduce your risk of severe outcomes.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by Azure

I have never said that.

I said if you are ALREADY VACCINATED, perhaps it would be wise to take a look at other clearly proven methods to help reduce your risk of a severe outcome from COVID.

Obesity
Heart Disease
Lack of Exercise
Diabetes

Are all PROVEN to lead to more severe outcomes from getting COVID, even if you are still vaccinated.

That's the way it came across to some people:

Originally Posted by Azure

Provided you and your immediate & extended family are vaccinated, if you want to further lower your risk of hospitalization, instead of worry about moving needle a few percentage points, you are much better off changing your lifestyle to eat healthy, losing weight, exercising 4-5x per week (walking isn't good enough), and getting your blood levels checked for vitamin D, because at this point the correlation between hospitalization & low Vitamin D levels simply cannot be denied.

Obesity
Lack of exercise
Unhealthy eating habits

All increase your risk of unwanted outcomes due to COVID by more than 50%.

Increasing the vaccination rate among eligible people from 85% to 90% is not going to statistically lower the risk of COVID spread among the entire population in any meaningful way, and people need to get off that wagon immediately.

Why those other higher impact choices are being ignored is beyond me, but I guess as with all things big pharma, the narrative is always driven by what makes the highest amount of profit, and more vaccines = more profit.

[Azure]

"Provided you and your immediate family are vaccinated."

"If you are already vaccinated"

Because over that we don't necessarily have control, but we have some influence, and hopefully positive influence to help family members go the right way if they are on the fence or hesitant.

We are talking beyond that. Beyond being vaccinated. Because that is where most people are.

I can't believe I have to explain this. I get people are annoyed & frustrated at people who are actually anti-vaxx, but the constant skepticism & even paranoia towards anything to help fight back against COVID that isn't 'vaccinate, vaccinate, vaccinate' is definitely puzzling.

[Jiri Hrdina]

I don't think you are listening to what people are saying.

[Rubicant]

Originally Posted by getbak

I laughed very hard when I read that one of the adverse events was ingestion of a penny. It will be funny to hear the antivax spin on that.

I knew the vaccines made you magnetic!

[PepsiFree]

It’s just blatantly wrong to say higher vaccination rates don’t further reduce the risk of spread in any meaningful way. And to have someone say that and then act confused why people are pushing back is incredible.

It’s akin to having your head in the sand and not understanding what is still yet ahead of us.

Acting like a refuting this point is just skepticism and paranoia is just cover for the pseudo-intellectual nonsense on display. You cannot say that further increases in vaccination rates won’t help and then say “but vitamin D is important” and in the same breath ask to be taken seriously and insult those who are not taking you as such. Completely ridiculous.

[Amethyst]

I think the uptake for younger children will be slower than other age groups. I know a number of people who got the vaccine themselves as soon as they were eligible, who are unsure about vaccinating their children.

I get Firefly's point about wanting to let more kids go first. When I was looking into laser eye surgery, I only considered doctors who had a LOT of experience... I didn't want to be the first case for someone. The other side of that is, though, that if all parents thought that way, we would never have any medication for children approved.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Azure

Perhaps if you had proper reading comprehension you would have realized that those things were all suggested over a year ago when vaccination rates were 0% and there was a very high risk of spread?

How is the risk of spread in classrooms of children 11 and younger not still very high risk like one year ago, aside from (most) teachers now being vaccinated?

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by FireFly

Yeah no. I won't be getting my daughter vaccinated before Christmas, even with a permission slip and vaccination clinic in her school. Hard pass until there are more than 1500 kids this has been tested on. I read bits of the report and frankly, that there are any serious vaccine injuries in a sample so small is pretty concerning.

Yeah no.
I buy some of what Azure is saying, but gotta pump the brakes hard on the 'vaccine injuries' thing.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by getbak

I laughed very hard when I read that one of the adverse events was ingestion of a penny. It will be funny to hear the antivax spin on that.

Follow the money...

[81MC]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I don't think you are listening to what people are saying.

Honestly it looks like people are spinning what he said.

The people within your circle of influence are vaccinated. There are these things you can do to further reduce your risk, that would be effective. The anti vaccine dopes are outside of your actual control, particularly as we have government restrictions on them, and stressing about them is an ineffective way to further reduce your risks.

Sounds pretty reasonable, no?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by 81MC

Honestly it looks like people are spinning what he said.

The people within your circle of influence are vaccinated. There are these things you can do to further reduce your risk, that would be effective. The anti vaccine dopes are outside of your actual control, particularly as we have government restrictions on them, and stressing about them is an ineffective way to further reduce your risks.

Sounds pretty reasonable, no?

I’d say the biggest risk is economic damage and canceled hospital services as a result of too high case loads leading to restrictions. 5% more vaccinations absolutely helps this.

[Macman]

I think some of the points that poster Azure is making are somewhat of a distraction and giving people that are already reluctant to get vaccinated something to cling on to. It's a form of misinformation although being fit and good ventilation are in themselves good things. They are just kind of irrelevant when it comes to covid.

Covid is a pathogen and we're far enough into this pandemic to know that not only do the vaccines work but also that the majority of people getting hospitalized and dying are unvaccinated.

There's been fit and healthy people get this and it still went bad for them and some even died and that's the problem with pushing a narrative like this, it's not conclusive and the vaccines are because they work.

As far as going forward, we're still in a pandemic and it hasn't been downgraded to an endemic. Let's see where we'll be in a few months from now with all the people vaccinated.

[lambeburger]

So when are we going to decide that this movement to exclude the unvaccinated from society has gone too far?

https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/covid-19-...nton-1.5642466

[Harry Lime]

There are over 86% of the eligible people that have the first dose in Alberta. That should move towards fully vaccinated in the next couple of months. Those are good numbers.

There are two things that I'm looking forward to.

1) The narrative switching to exactly why, after what is going to soon be two years of pandemic, the base ICU beds in Alberta continue to be so low. 173 ICU beds for 4.5 million people is unacceptable. In two years, there should have been training for nurses to transition into the ICU specialty. The unvaccinated have been the villains in this fourth wave, but the government should not be getting a pass.

2) The Merck pill could be a gamechanger. Having an actual treatment to prevent harsh outcomes to covid is going to alter the landscape. The States have emergency approval for December, and I really want to see the effect.

[Jiri Hrdina]

I agree on a treatment being an x-factor and always felt that was part of the long-term solution. Effective vaccine+effective treatment.

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by lambeburger

So when are we going to decide that this movement to exclude the unvaccinated from society has gone too far?

https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/covid-19-...nton-1.5642466

Hmmm…let’s see… cooperative living space means you… umm… cooperate, sharing costs and risks.

Let’s use the UCP lingo on this, it isn’t exclusion of the unvaccinated, it’s inclusion of the people who cooperatively agree to minimize collective risk.

Smoking is also not permitted in several condos is this also “too far” and excluding people in a building with shared ventilation systems?

[81MC]

Originally Posted by GGG

I’d say the biggest risk is economic damage and canceled hospital services as a result of too high case loads leading to restrictions. 5% more vaccinations absolutely helps this.

Sure.

But how exactly can you, or I, or Fuzz or 99% of the pro-vaccine crowd be responsible for a 5% uptake? Azure was clearly talking about personal influence and things within ones control.

Shout at the clouds, curse the heavens, throw tomatoes at the anti vaxxers, throw #### at the UCP, besmirch the hesitant, rant and rave about rates ona. Forum. None of that is actively reducing your risk. We have controls, businesses are on board, governments are restricting non-vaccinated peoples as much as conscionable.

Taking active measures to increase your health, that IS under your control. And the data supports that, generally speaking reduced comorbidity reduces severity outcomes from Covid.

This isn’t azure being an assclown. If people are choosing to misconstrue the premise, they’re sort of illustrating the point.

[Treycal]

Originally Posted by lambeburger

So when are we going to decide that this movement to exclude the unvaccinated from society has gone too far?

https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/covid-19-...nton-1.5642466

It appears to me that a private corporation is deciding on what sort of customers they want to serve. How is this any different than some condo/rental buildings only allowing someone aged 55+ to own/rent in their complex.

Given the current apartment vacancy rate in Calgary (around 8%) and another 37(!) apartment buildings under construction, I think they are attempting to make their units appeal to a certain population within Calgary. At the same time, given the same vacancy rate, etc, if you don't like the rules for a particular complex there would appear to be a lot of choice in the market that don't have the same restrictions.