Coronavirus All Purpose Thread: The unnecessary Dumb Dumb 4th wave

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Some places are there though and people need something to look forward too. Been a long haul, and the risk is lower than at any point of the pandemic. I live in Guelph and the city has 93% one dose, 91% two dose.

Guelph is a weird city though. I’m saying that in a loving way! My wife is from there and she has a fair amount of family there. It’s a lovely city, but it’s idiosyncratic and probably not a good gauge for a lot of things.

[Azure]

Antibodies, your first line of defence against COVID-19 infection, do decline — and may even be doing so as you're reading this — but that's not unexpected.

While one aspect of your vaccine-induced immunity to COVID-19 is technically "waning" in the weeks and months after vaccination, that's not necessarily a bad thing — because it's not your immune system's only form of protection against the virus.

"I don't even like the term," said University of Toronto immunologist Jennifer Gommerman. "And the reason I don't like the term is that it implies that the immune response in its entirety is declining."

It's "entirely normal" for antibody levels to drop initially after vaccination and your immune response to the virus to become "contracted" over time, she said. But your body is also creating "highly efficient" memory B cells to fight off COVID-19 long term.

B cells work quickly to generate large quantities of antibodies in the weeks after vaccination, but they typically produce more effective antibodies as time goes on, helping sharpen the long-term response to a virus.

So while reports of waning immunity may sound concerning, that initial decrease in antibody levels may also be necessary in the fight against COVID-19, as it helps fine-tune the immune system's plan of attack.

A new study published in the journal Science found "robust cellular immune memory" from B cells for at least six months after mRNA vaccination against all circulating strains of the virus — even the highly contagious delta variant.

The researchers found those memory cells, unlike the initial wave of antibodies, continue to learn how to fend off the virus months after vaccination and are actually getting better at it over time.

Older, frailer Canadians living with comorbidities in congregate settings, such as long-term care facilities, are at increased risk of breakthrough infections because their antibody levels drop "much faster" than in the general population, said Gommerman.

A recent preprint study from the Toronto-based Lunenfeld-Tanenbaum Research Institute at Sinai Health analyzed 119 Ontario long-term care residents and 78 staff over four months, finding much lower levels of neutralizing antibodies in the elderly patients.

Gommerman also stresses there's an important difference between infections and disease.

"We expect people to get infected — even healthy people to get infected — as antibody levels decline, because the only thing that can protect you against a breakthrough infection are antibodies," she said.

"But we have to think about who we're looking at, and what underlying comorbidities might be there in people who experienced breakthrough disease."

"The main takeaway is that we don't need to do boosters at this time for the general population. We can hold off and wait and see — and when we start seeing the waning, then that's when we should use the boosters," said Dr. Jeff Kwong, an epidemiologist and senior scientist at ICES.

"It would be premature to do it at this time and not in our best interest, because we're allowing other variants to emerge potentially if we let the pandemic spread uncontrolled in other parts of the world [where] they're not vaccinated."

Saxinger said the vast majority of Canadians who get severely ill or hospitalized after full vaccination are the very elderly, the immunocompromised, transplant patients and people with certain types of cancers.

"That group of people, of course, they should get a third dose," she said. "But even with a third dose, they still are going to remain vulnerable as long as we have circulating virus in the community."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/wanin...nada-1.6221608

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Slava

Guelph is a weird city though. I’m saying that in a loving way! My wife is from there and she has a fair amount of family there. It’s a lovely city, but it’s idiosyncratic and probably not a good gauge for a lot of things.

No doubt. Just saying there are regions in Ontario tapping there toes asking what’s next.

[getbak]

Active cases in Alberta are below 10,000 for the first time in almost exactly 2 months (August 26 - October 22).

Since we're now two weeks past Thanksgiving, it looks like we didn't see any significant bump from family gatherings over the long weekend.

[sketchyt]

We've been notified that another child in my sons' elementary school classroom has COVID. No symptoms in our household.

My question, however, is: technically, what's protocol for work? Am I supposed to WFH for X days? How many days? Anything else I need to consider?

[puckedoff]

I think technically, your kid is a close contact and not you. So you can go to work, just don't take your kid with you.

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by sketchyt

We've been notified that another child in my sons' elementary school classroom has COVID. No symptoms in our household.

My question, however, is: technically, what's protocol for work? Am I supposed to WFH for X days? How many days? Anything else I need to consider?

That is up to your employer to decide, legally you do not need to isolate.

[keenan87]

I am a bit surprised that we didn't see a Thanksgiving bump.

[the-rasta-masta]

For my mental health over the last few weeks I've stopped following daily Covid updates and avoided reading the news a bit. I found the anti-vax positions to be just too infuriating as they were usually easily dismissed with rationale thought and critical thinking. I've definitely felt much better without being consistently sucked into the debate.

But, it seems pretty much conclusive as I check the numbers the last few weeks here this morning that the vaccine mandate is working tremendously well?

[Nancy]

Originally Posted by the-rasta-masta

For my mental health over the last few weeks I've stopped following daily Covid updates and avoided reading the news a bit. I found the anti-vax positions to be just too infuriating as they were usually easily dismissed with rationale thought and critical thinking. I've definitely felt much better without being consistently sucked into the debate.

But, it seems pretty much inconclusive as I check the numbers the last few weeks here this morning that the vaccine mandate is working tremendously well?

Contrast us with Montana, whose numbers also started taking off at the end of July. Their daily numbers are still stuck in the 800's, for a population 1/4 of ours. I do not believe they have any restrictions currently, and actually have a state law that bans vaccine credentials.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/montana/

[Knut]

Originally Posted by the-rasta-masta

For my mental health over the last few weeks I've stopped following daily Covid updates and avoided reading the news a bit. I found the anti-vax positions to be just too infuriating as they were usually easily dismissed with rationale thought and critical thinking. I've definitely felt much better without being consistently sucked into the debate.

But, it seems pretty much inconclusive as I check the numbers the last few weeks here this morning that the vaccine mandate is working tremendously well?

Anecdotally, I know of 10 people that got the shot only because of the mandate/work restrictions. I really think it is working. Too bad we did not start it in July.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by the-rasta-masta

For my mental health over the last few weeks I've stopped following daily Covid updates and avoided reading the news a bit. I found the anti-vax positions to be just too infuriating as they were usually easily dismissed with rationale thought and critical thinking. I've definitely felt much better without being consistently sucked into the debate.

But, it seems pretty much inconclusive as I check the numbers the last few weeks here this morning that the vaccine mandate is working tremendously well?

Not checking the numbers all the time was a big uplift to my mental well-being as well, I found my mood was always sour because all the things I could be doing were made less enjoyable or more cumbersome due to pandemic mitigations being in place, required because of unvaccinated idiots.

I don't think the word 'inconclusive' is what you're looking for. Vaccinations have been trending upward at a greater rate after the announcement on the 15th of September, whereas they were looking pretty flat prior. We were hitting a peak at that point and starting a decline as the restrictions brought in earlier in the month were starting be reflected in the numbers. The REP added some extra velocity to case numbers that were starting to drop, and we now see them consistently trending downward.

[the-rasta-masta]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

Not checking the numbers all the time was a big uplift to my mental well-being as well, I found my mood was always sour because all the things I could be doing were made less enjoyable or more cumbersome due to pandemic mitigations being in place, required because of unvaccinated idiots.

I don't think the word 'inconclusive' is what you're looking for. Vaccinations have been trending upward at a greater rate after the announcement on the 15th of September, whereas they were looking pretty flat prior. We were hitting a peak at that point and starting a decline as the restrictions brought in earlier in the month were starting be reflected in the numbers. The REP added some extra velocity to case numbers that were starting to drop, and we now see them consistently trending downward.

Sorry, I definitely meant "conclusive" in that case! Edited!

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Knut

Anecdotally, I know of 10 people that got the shot only because of the mandate/work restrictions. I really think it is working. Too bad we did not start it in July.

Based on the the timeframe since September 15th and move to now enforce second doses approaching, we should be seeing a large rise in second dose uptake that will bring AB inline with the average across Canada.

Like the passport system or not, it certainly cannot be argued that it isn't working given how fast things have turned around while effectively remaining open. It also helps that many large employers across the province are tightening the noose on the last number of true degenerate scumbags holding out on getting vaxxed.

[tvp2003]

US approves Pfizer vaccine for kids aged 5-11:

https://twitter.com/user/status/1453093723785543680

Hopefully Canada isn't too far behind...

[EldrickOnIce]

Is first step for approval.
Should be approved (emergency) in next few days

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by tvp2003

US approves Pfizer vaccine for kids aged 5-11:

https://twitter.com/user/status/1453093723785543680

Hopefully Canada isn't too far behind...

Good news but I suspect uptake will be dogged as many parents take a slower, more cautious approach than many themselves would have taken back in the Spring.

Even if AB only sees an initial 30% uptake in this age range with another 30% slowly trickling in, it will be dramatic to the overall numbers nonetheless.

[Azure]

Well, kids are low risk & most of the population is already vaccinated. So we don't need massive uptake on this to 'stop the spread' and it better not be presented as such.

We are completely capable of reducing risk to everyone without this.

Biggest importance to me is the kids with health conditions, or kids living with people that are at risk.

My concern is the simple fact that there is still a risk of spreading, and therefore we need to STILL be concerned about our vulnerable citizens, regardless of vaccine uptake numbers. But of course we knew that from the start and nobody gave a #### about it (care home situation). So I'd imagine everyone will continue giving a #### about it going into the future.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Azure

Well, kids are low risk & most of the population is already vaccinated. So we don't need massive uptake on this to 'stop the spread' and it better not be presented as such.

We are completely capable of reducing risk to everyone without this.

Biggest importance to me is the kids with health conditions, or kids living with people that are at risk.

My concern is the simple fact that there is still a risk of spreading, and therefore we need to STILL be concerned about our vulnerable citizens, regardless of vaccine uptake numbers. But of course we knew that from the start and nobody gave a #### about it (care home situation). So I'd imagine everyone will continue giving a #### about it going into the future.

This is nonsense, for reasons to make in your own post. The more vaccinated, the better. Presenting it as "oh, well, they aren't at risk and others are already vaccinated" infuriates me. Then you go on and recognize that we need to protect the vulnerable. Well guess what??? Your first point is in direct contradiction to that. I've been stuck isolated for ~20 months. And you just want that drawn out? What about protecting the vulnerable? Do we just keep hiding out forever? Suffer through another needless wave because of the unvacinated? Lose access to hospitals again?

Every additional person vaccinated protects my family. Everyone who use the excuses you provide makes it harder on us, and our mental health, which some people claim is important, and that they've suffered so much from "lockdowns" while some of us have been forced to live out much worse.

We know vaccinated spread less than unvacinated. We know the risk of the vaccine for kids is low. The responsible thing for parents to do is get their kids vaccinated as soon as they can. Please, please do that.

[Azure]

So what exactly are you going for? You already know there will never be no risk, regardless of vaccination rates.

We already know that hospital rates can quite easily be reduced with restrictions & mandates, and with 80% vaccination rates. Had the Alberta government not be so bone-headed stupid, there never would have been an issue on that front to begin with. Most other provinces have long moved past that problem.

Vaccine rates are consistently going up, and will continue to go up, though slower with these approvals, but you are never going to 100%, so if you are waiting on the day where you can leave isolation and never have to worry about COVID, it is simply not coming. Protecting the vulnerable is 100% about vaccinating the vulnerable, and have treatment options in place, and the resources to take care of them, and not about vaccinating kids you'll never see.

I must be missing something, because if you are vaccinated, why exactly do you need to isolate? Statistically your risk of going to the hospital is not going to change if the vaccination rates go up 5%.