Coronavirus All Purpose Thread: The unnecessary Dumb Dumb 4th wave

[PeteMoss]

Ontario announces plan to lift restrictions:

Monday - lift capacity limits in restaurants, gyms, casinos
Jan 17 - lift vaccine mandates for restaurants, sporting facilities and casinos - move to opt-in plan
March 28 - lift mask mandates and all other measures

Subject to change obviously. Election year upcoming in Ontario.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Ontario announces plan to lift restrictions:

Monday - lift capacity limits in restaurants, gyms, casinos
Jan 17 - lift vaccine mandates for restaurants, sporting facilities and casinos - move to opt-in plan
March 28 - lift mask mandates and all other measures

Subject to change obviously. Election year upcoming in Ontario.

I don't have a problem with this, as long as it is reviewed as changed as needed.

I think people need something to look forward to.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

I don't have a problem with this, as long as it is reviewed as changed as needed.

I think people need something to look forward to.

My only concern would be the vaccine mandate lift date being given out now may reduce people getting their shot. But agreed, the Monday date is the only one that will actually happen for sure and don't see a reason to limit restaurants, etc when you can have full houses for the Leafs and Raptors

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Ontario announces plan to lift restrictions:

Monday - lift capacity limits in restaurants, gyms, casinos
Jan 17 - lift vaccine mandates for restaurants, sporting facilities and casinos - move to opt-in plan
March 28 - lift mask mandates and all other measures

Subject to change obviously. Election year upcoming in Ontario.

I’m of two minds on that. I like seeing this, but I’m sceptical that COVID numbers will be such that lifting all measures on March 28 will be wise. I also share the concern that this announcement could deter Ontarians from getting vaccinated.

[AFireInside]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

That’s hilarious. I doubt there’s a poster on CP who makes more of an effort to substantiate his opinions than I do. In the last few months alone I’ve quoted and referenced dozens of articles and studies on various topics. And I actually cut back on referencing outside sources because it was taking up too much of my time and it frankly isn’t in keeping with the tenor of this forum, where snarky quips rule the day.

LOL...

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

My only concern would be the vaccine mandate lift date being given out now may reduce people getting their shot. But agreed, the Monday date is the only one that will actually happen for sure and don't see a reason to limit restaurants, etc when you can have full houses for the Leafs and Raptors

Yup. Be limited on what you can do for another three months if you're not cool with the vaccine (it'll be freezing outside anyway!) and come mid-Jan, it'll be opt-in and many businesses will prefer to not limit their customer base.

[Duruss]

Originally Posted by MoneyGuy

I’m of two minds on that. I like seeing this, but I’m sceptical that COVID numbers will be such that lifting all measures on March 28 will be wise. I also share the concern that this announcement could deter Ontarians from getting vaccinated.

Covid waves have been noted to be on a 4 month cycle and March might be the tail end of another wave or the peak? Guess it depends on Ontario getting another wave, perhaps one driven by yet another new variant that the antivaxxers have kindly used their bodies to incubate.

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-...2-month-cycle/

[getbak]

With the way the waves have been going, it seems pointless to project anything 4 or 5 months in advance.

[mrkajz44]

Yeah, I really dislike how they've basically told non-vaxxed people to just wait it out a few more months and they'll be fine. The pandemic is trundling along because of the unvaccinated, so absolutely every action should be done trying to get more people vaccinated.

I know at some point the vax mandate will get lifted, and that is fine. But don't give a date because (a) you'll lose some potential people getting vaccinates as they'll just wait it out; and (b) that date is so far in the future it's hard to image it being stuck to in the end.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

My only concern would be the vaccine mandate lift date being given out now may reduce people getting their shot. But agreed, the Monday date is the only one that will actually happen for sure and don't see a reason to limit restaurants, etc when you can have full houses for the Leafs and Raptors

Yeah I missed that when I first read it. It is months from now though… no one who was about to cave and get the shot is saying “oh I’ll just wait until January”. At least not enough people to matter.

[puckedoff]

Listen, the only thing I hate more than other people telling me what to do is other people telling me to WAIT. This is the last straw I am booking my shot.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

Ontario announces plan to lift restrictions:

Monday - lift capacity limits in restaurants, gyms, casinos
Jan 17 - lift vaccine mandates for restaurants, sporting facilities and casinos - move to opt-in plan
March 28 - lift mask mandates and all other measures

Subject to change obviously. Election year upcoming in Ontario.

I'm not sure I understand any point to this. Covid has been way too fluid and new to modern society to just look months down the road and announce random dates for lifting things. It needs to be constantly monitored with restrictions placed and lifted with the trends. Like seriously, why?

Those dates could work...or way more than likely they'll be way too early or late based on Covid and hospital trends.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by jayswin

I'm not sure I understand any point to this. Covid has been way too fluid and new to modern society to just look months down the road and announce random dates for lifting things. It needs to be constantly monitored with restrictions placed and lifted with the trends. Like seriously, why?

Those dates could work...or way more than likely they'll be way too early or late based on Covid and hospital trends.

They preface it all with:

In the absence of concerning trends, public health and workplace safety measures will be lifted based on the proposed following milestones:

In the absence of concerning trends in public health and health care following the winter holiday months and after students returned to in-class learning, the province intends to…

This isn’t “open for summer”.

To manage COVID-19 over the long-term, local and regional responses by public health units will be deployed based on local context and conditions. Public health measures that may be applied locally could include reintroducing capacity limits and/or physical distancing, reducing gathering limits and adding settings where proof of vaccination is required, among others. Public health measures would be implemented provincially in exceptional circumstances, such as when the province’s health system capacity is at risk of becoming overwhelmed or if a vaccine resistant COVID-19 variant is identified in the province.

[Rubicant]

I think it makes more sense to make it metric based, rather than date based. Vaccination rates/case rates/hospitalization etc must be x. The only reason the Jan 17 date makes a bit of sense is it’s 2 weeks post Christmas break, so any impact of that would be seen or not.


Also not fond of saying that vaccination requirements to access things could be gone in a few months. It will just embolden those who don't want to get vaxxed by telling them they can just hold out for a few months and it won’t matter anymore.

Glad to see a potential way out of course, and happy that it will be past the point where I can get my kids vaccinated.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Rubicant

I think it makes more sense to make it metric based, rather than date based. Vaccination rates/case rates/hospitalization etc must be x. The only reason the Jan 17 date makes a bit of sense is it’s 2 weeks post Christmas break, so any impact of that would be seen .

I’d argue that the entire reason the plan was announced is because they hit a target they wanted on all of those things already.

[Azure]

Exactly. The vaccination rate has been reached, and now it is just a matter of controlling hospital rates.

If they can do that, there is no reason to keep restrictions in place.

They just need to be able to put the restrictions in place AGAIN, a lot quicker should the rates rise (which seems to be the problem).

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Azure

Exactly. The vaccination rate has been reached, and now it is just a matter of controlling hospital rates.

If they can do that, there is no reason to keep restrictions in place.

They just need to be able to put the restrictions in place AGAIN, a lot quicker should the rates rise (which seems to be the problem).

That’s why it should be metric based.

RT, weekly cases per 100k or hospitalization rates could be set for the implementation and removal of restrictions. It takes politics out of it. People in Alberta died as a result of the federal election and the failure of Kenny to act sooner. This was highly likely related to not wanting to cause issues during the federal election campaign.

[Rubicant]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

I’d argue that the entire reason the plan was announced is because they hit a target they wanted on all of those things already.

I kind of agree, although I have read that they want 90% of eligible with 2 doses, plus there is a whole new cohort of the population that will be eligible soon.

I just think the way they have framed things will embolden the unvaccinated to hold out to reach that date, which will hinder our ability to vaccinate as many people as possible so we can stop restrictions and keep them that way.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by GGG

That’s why it should be metric based.

RT, weekly cases per 100k or hospitalization rates could be set for the implementation and removal of restrictions. It takes politics out of it. People in Alberta died as a result of the federal election and the failure of Kenny to act sooner. This was highly likely related to not wanting to cause issues during the federal election campaign.

Yup, and I feel that if they would set that metric and let people know 'hey this is what we gotta achieve' it would take away a lot of the issues.

At the end of the day I want the mandates, restrictions and lockdowns gone as well. We are all weary of them.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Rubicant

I kind of agree, although I have read that they want 90% of eligible with 2 doses, plus there is a whole new cohort of the population that will be eligible soon.

I just think the way they have framed things will embolden the unvaccinated to hold out to reach that date, which will hinder our ability to vaccinate as many people as possible so we can stop restrictions and keep them that way.

Some places are there though and people need something to look forward too. Been a long haul, and the risk is lower than at any point of the pandemic. I live in Guelph and the city has 93% one dose, 91% two dose.