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Old 09-24-2021, 08:03 AM   #3161
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same. Could never have imagined it could ever happen in this country. even during all the other covid waves.



that's why it bothers me some people are currently using the argument that since they are double vaxxed, life should go on, and they should be able to do all the normal things.



no. not when our health care system is in the biggest crisis in history.

sure you're not likely to get covid, or if you do, go to the hospital with it, but that's not the point.



not right now.
A single dose of leadership would help more than everyone getting two shots of the vaccine.

It is appalling that Kenney let it get to this stage.

Our poor doctors and nurses!
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Old 09-24-2021, 08:38 AM   #3162
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https://www.fortmcmurraytoday.com/ne...ported-in-rmwb

CNRL making vaccination mandatory.
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Old 09-24-2021, 08:57 AM   #3163
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Only at their operations facilities? No mention of head office, maybe I missed it however.
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Old 09-24-2021, 08:59 AM   #3164
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Only at their operations facilities? No mention of head office, maybe I missed it however.
Head office as well
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Old 09-24-2021, 09:47 AM   #3165
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A single dose of leadership would help more than everyone getting two shots of the vaccine.

It is appalling that Kenney let it get to this stage.

Our poor doctors and nurses!
that we can all agree on.

The messaging the UCP provided this year said that they support the anti vax "freedom" crowd.
they pandered to it, to the detriment of our health.
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Old 09-24-2021, 09:55 AM   #3166
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I got vaccinated for rabies before I went to Mongolia. Didn't mean I went and hung out with stray dogs while I was there.

Vaccination isn't perfect. And even if I'm safe from serious illness, the more we keep passing this virus around, the longer the pandemic will last.
Yeah, I dunno. This vaccine in particular almost seems perfect. A complete marvel of science.

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Across the weeks of May 3 to August 23, fully-vaccinated New Yorkers had between 89.5% and a 95.2% lower chance of being hospitalized with COVID-19, compared to unvaccinated New Yorkers.

The ongoing 89% effectiveness against hospitalization is consistent with the results of the original vaccine clinical trialsí results, which showed protection from severe COVID-19 disease at these levels, officials say.
https://hudsonvalleypost.com/new-yor...tiveness/?s=08

If you start factoring in the chance of end up on the hospital to begin with (lower than 5% IIRC), then start applying vaccines, mandates, etc. It truly is a marvel.
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Old 09-24-2021, 09:57 AM   #3167
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A medical marvel for sure, but by your own quote, it isn't perfect. 100% is perfect (and being available to everyone, including kids).
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Old 09-24-2021, 09:58 AM   #3168
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Why should we sacrifice anything unless the government makes us. Itís bailing out the people who can fix the problem. Kenny Hinshaw and the unvaccinated.
That's true. I just don't know what to do any more. We're ####ed, and at this point I can't see a good way to get through this.

probably isn't one and we just muddle through the best we can. It's easy to get worked up thinking about where we might be if different decisions were made.

The current state of our health care system has shaken me.
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Old 09-24-2021, 10:05 AM   #3169
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Yeah, I dunno. This vaccine in particular almost seems perfect. A complete marvel of science.

https://hudsonvalleypost.com/new-yor...tiveness/?s=08

If you start factoring in the chance of end up on the hospital to begin with (lower than 5% IIRC), then start applying vaccines, mandates, etc. It truly is a marvel.
Not really. Most routine vaccines are nearly 100% effective at preventing infection, never mind hospitalization, and they last for life. These vaccines don't come close to providing that level of protection.

Now that's not necessarily an issue with the COVID vaccines themselves, it's likely just how immunity to coronaviruses works.
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Old 09-24-2021, 10:23 AM   #3170
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They were that effective against the strain they were created from though weren't they?

If we had a delta specific booster would we see the 90+% effective against infection again?
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Old 09-24-2021, 10:23 AM   #3171
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Not really. Most routine vaccines are nearly 100% effective at preventing infection, never mind hospitalization, and they last for life. These vaccines don't come close to providing that level of protection.

Now that's not necessarily an issue with the COVID vaccines themselves, it's likely just how immunity to coronaviruses works.
Could vaccine science evolve to get to 100% efficacy against infection? Would that represent a cure for the common cold?
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Old 09-24-2021, 10:43 AM   #3172
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They were that effective against the strain they were created from though weren't they?

If we had a delta specific booster would we see the 90+% effective against infection again?
Only as long as antibodies were sky high, but coronavirus antibodies seem to wane pretty quickly, eventually dropping below the level required to prevent infection. That's why we can get infected by the same coronaviruses that cause the common cold year after year.

The longer-term protection against severe disease largely comes from cellular immunity, which allows our bodies to produce new antibodies in response to an infection. But we don't really now how big of a role circulating antibodies are playing in that protection against severe disease, so it's possible that as those wane, so will some of the protection against severe disease. But that's not really how most routine vaccines work. With COVID vaccines as they are now, once antibodies wane, you likely don't have a whole lot of protection against mild to moderate disease. Whereas with vaccines for measles, polio, HPV, etc., they are basically 90-100% effective at preventing symptomatic infection more or less for life.
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Old 09-24-2021, 10:57 AM   #3173
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Could vaccine science evolve to get to 100% efficacy against infection? Would that represent a cure for the common cold?
Who knows? I mean, it's theoretically possible that a 3rd or 4th dose will have antibodies plateau at a level high enough for protection in most people for a long time, but that seems pretty unlikely at this point. Newer vaccines that can induce higher antibody responses in mucosal membranes will likely do a better job of preventing infection in the first place, but then it comes down to whether those antibodies wane quickly.

And of course, there's the question of whether having low protection against mild disease even matters all that much. If COVID keeps circulating and we're continually exposed, that will likely boost our defenses against it and largely prevent severe disease in otherwise healthy people. So regular boosters might end up being used more for older or more vulnerable people. It'll probably come down to what kind of side effects we get from booster doses and then we'd determine the risk/benefit from that for healthy people.

I really wish Novavax's vaccine was in use at this point, because in trials at least, it had the lowest side effects of any of the top vaccines. So if we could be getting booster doses without the risk of clotting (like in AZ and J&J) and without the risk of myocarditis (in the mRNA vaccines), then that would change the math pretty significantly. But who knows, those issues weren't really identified until the vaccines were rolled out, so it's possible that Novavax will have its own issues.
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Old 09-24-2021, 11:59 AM   #3174
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Old 09-24-2021, 12:22 PM   #3175
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Who knows? I mean, it's theoretically possible that a 3rd or 4th dose will have antibodies plateau at a level high enough for protection in most people for a long time, but that seems pretty unlikely at this point. Newer vaccines that can induce higher antibody responses in mucosal membranes will likely do a better job of preventing infection in the first place, but then it comes down to whether those antibodies wane quickly.

And of course, there's the question of whether having low protection against mild disease even matters all that much. If COVID keeps circulating and we're continually exposed, that will likely boost our defenses against it and largely prevent severe disease in otherwise healthy people. So regular boosters might end up being used more for older or more vulnerable people. It'll probably come down to what kind of side effects we get from booster doses and then we'd determine the risk/benefit from that for healthy people.

I really wish Novavax's vaccine was in use at this point, because in trials at least, it had the lowest side effects of any of the top vaccines. So if we could be getting booster doses without the risk of clotting (like in AZ and J&J) and without the risk of myocarditis (in the mRNA vaccines), then that would change the math pretty significantly. But who knows, those issues weren't really identified until the vaccines were rolled out, so it's possible that Novavax will have its own issues.
I'm also wondering if Novavax will be a big driver of vaccination. Same or better efficacy as the mRNA vaccines, but with older techniques. Better results against variants as well. They started trials on the exact same day as Pzifer, but went through a slower process to utilization, which will allay some of the fears of the hesitant.

Any word on whether this is going to be available in Canada?
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Old 09-24-2021, 12:38 PM   #3176
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I'm also wondering if Novavax will be a big driver of vaccination. Same or better efficacy as the mRNA vaccines, but with older techniques. Better results against variants as well. They started trials on the exact same day as Pzifer, but went through a slower process to utilization, which will allay some of the fears of the hesitant.
The more traditional technology might allay some fears, but the longer time frame has more to do with supply issues than taking a more cautious approach.

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Any word on whether this is going to be available in Canada?
It should be eventually, but they're still having production issues and material shortages, so who knows when it'd ever end up in Canada. It's downright ridiculous that there hasn't been more push to get this used in the real world so we could have data about adverse reactions, real-world effectiveness, and duration of immunity in larger populations.
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Old 09-24-2021, 01:12 PM   #3177
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Man imagine where we would be if people were half as smart as the folks in this thread.
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Old 09-24-2021, 01:27 PM   #3178
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Man imagine where we would be if people were half as smart as the folks in this thread.

Think weíre there
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Old 09-24-2021, 01:56 PM   #3179
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So looks like BC has been understated their Covid hospitalization numbers because they drop people from their hospitalized list once they are no long infectious with Covid even though are still in the hospital.

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More than a week after CTV News asked for the numbers and was first to report on the dual accounting methods, the province now says that as of Tuesday, there were 152 additional patients in hospital due to COVID but who were no longer infectious and therefore had “discontinued isolation.”

On Thursday, it reported 330 infectious and still in hospital, 148 of them in intensive care.
Possible other provinces are doing this as well - which is why some of the numbers don't make sense in terms of the space available vs people hospitalized with Covid.

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/b-c-health-off...sure-1.5599428
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Old 09-24-2021, 02:02 PM   #3180
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BC's data and transparency around COVID has been awful for pretty much the entire pandemic. The Alberta government might be run by idiots and they might make terrible decisions, but the transparency of the data is miles above BC's.
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