Coronavirus All Purpose Thread: The unnecessary Dumb Dumb 4th wave

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by jkflames

https://www.660citynews.com/2021/09/...cine-passport/

News could be on it's way today or tomorrow.

Passport 'system'. Optional utilization. Zero enforcement.

[pepper24]

Originally Posted by Hockeyguy15

Cases isn't the problem anymore, and it wasn't going to be with vaccines. Hospitalization and ICU rates are the problem.

I wonder if AHS can add more temporary facilities like the one at Peter Lougheed hospital.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...ital-1.6106271

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by pepper24

I wonder if AHS can add more temporary facilities like the one at Peter Lougheed hospital.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...ital-1.6106271

Sure.add all you want, we need staff which is a problem.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

I can’t believe how hard I tried to get one of those “What Would Deena Do?” shirts. Came up empty handed.

Although they have a more chill meaning now… The Dude’esque.

I bet someone could sell a lot of “what DID Deena do?” shirts

[pepper24]

Originally Posted by jkflames

https://www.660citynews.com/2021/09/...cine-passport/

News could be on it's way today or tomorrow.

I'm ok with some sort of vaccine passport if it's temporary and tied to some metric like hospitalizations or ICU.

I liked how past stages were tied to hospitalizations and the reopening this summer was tied to vaccine numbers.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by jkflames

https://www.660citynews.com/2021/09/...cine-passport/

News could be on it's way today or tomorrow.

I guess my problem with the 'Vaccine Passport' is that its overdue, its kind of 'too little too late' to solve our medical issues right now.

The other restrictions are going to have to be more.....restrictive.

[marsplasticeraser]

Just by following what was happening in the UK it was pretty clear by mid-July that there would be a delta wave here in Canada.

Everybody assumed Delta would impact us, and I don't know any reasonable people who thought we were out of the woods.

But even with that, I have very low expectations for Kenney and Shandro, so I can accept they got that call spectacularly wrong.

What is appalling is they then put their heads in the sand like little kids and ignored what is going on, and put us in a position of where we are now. Only taking action when we are in crisis.

We have had 3 months to prepare for this, and these morons have done nothing.

Originally Posted by Slava

Did you read those articles or are you going by the headlines? There are comments in there in the vein of "we'll see what happens, but it's risky". I mean we all knew that? There's risk in re-opening and there were always going to be more cases. And spoiler...when we get through this 4th wave and re-open from it (I'm convinced that we're going to see restrictions at this point because there are no other options), there will also be more cases. And there are going to be people saying that we're re-opening from that too soon. No one is every going to agree that it's safe, so it's basically a no-win scenario.



No, the politicization goes both ways. The NDP is more than happy to hold press conferences saying how horrific this is, and to grandstand about the mishandling. I'm nowhere near a UCP/Kenney supporter, but I think it's pretty easy to see that.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by pepper24

I wonder if AHS can add more temporary facilities like the one at Peter Lougheed hospital.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...ital-1.6106271

It doesn't really matter if they add more facilities when you don't have staffing to man the beds. Right now there are up to 4 patients per ICU nurse - the standard is typically 1-1.

To staff additional beds, you're looking at reduced maternity services, cancer treatments, elective surgery cancellation and beyond.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Passport 'system'. Optional utilization. Zero enforcement.

If that is what's coming (and I wouldn't be surprised), it's a pure abdication of duty. It basically pushes the problem to private businesses and will have no impact whatsoever.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by pepper24

I wonder if AHS can add more temporary facilities like the one at Peter Lougheed hospital.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...ital-1.6106271

They could be setup as a co-op, where the new admissions provide care for those already there. Give them links to YouTube videos on how to intubate a person. Manuals for operating a ventilator as light reading.

[opendoor]

It's funny, even now when they're admitting mistakes, they're not even identifying the real issues.

The problem wasn't so much reopening when they did; the messaging wasn't helpful, but lots of places have reopened similarly without getting into Alberta's current situation. The issue was that the whole foundation of their decision-making was built on extremely faulty and demonstrably incorrect assumptions that hospitalizations would remain flat regardless of what cases did. And then instead of recognizing that they were wrong 6 weeks ago when it was clear that hospital usage was increasing dramatically, they just doubled down and announced they were ending widespread testing and that COVID was now endemic. Then they sat around for a month and a half doing essentially nothing, while anyone with a basic understanding of exponential growth knew what was coming.

[81MC]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Wrong, and I'm so tired of seeing this everywhere. It was - and continues to be - politicized by the right. Everybody else is just trying to manage the pandemic based on facts and action. It's not political for them.

Hmmm.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by opendoor

It's funny, even now when they're admitting mistakes, they're not even identifying the real issues.

The problem wasn't so much reopening when they did; the messaging wasn't helpful, but lots of places have reopened similarly without getting into Alberta's current situation. The issue was that the whole foundation of their decision-making was built on extremely faulty and demonstrably incorrect assumptions that hospitalizations would remain flat regardless of what cases did. And then instead of recognizing that they were wrong 6 weeks ago when it was clear that hospital usage was increasing dramatically, they just doubled down and announced they were ending widespread testing and that COVID was now endemic. Then they sat around for a month and a half doing essentially nothing, while anyone with a basic understanding of exponential growth knew what was coming.

And let's be clear. NONE of that is Monday morning QB'ing. People have been screaming about these gaps in their approach, refusal to use data, and refusal to look at what's worked/not worked elsewhere for MONTHs.

[pepper24]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

It doesn't really matter if they add more facilities when you don't have staffing to man the beds. Right now there are up to 4 patients per ICU nurse - the standard is typically 1-1.

To staff additional beds, you're looking at reduced maternity services, cancer treatments, elective surgery cancellation and beyond.

They don't have staffing agencies that can fill these temporary gaps?

They don't offer OT pay for extra work?

Bring back recent retired doctors and nurses for short term help?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by pepper24

They don't have staffing agencies that can fill these temporary gaps?

They don't offer OT pay for extra work?

Bring back recent retired doctors and nurses for short term help?

Yeah, lets pack Hospitals with more Elderly...

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by pepper24

They don't have staffing agencies that can fill these temporary gaps?

They don't offer OT pay for extra work?

Bring back recent retired doctors and nurses for short term help?

Are you Kenny or Shandro?

[Roughneck]

Just head on down to Cash Corner and get some ICU staff.

[pepper24]

So you guys are telling me that there isn't one single house to rent in all of Tuscany?

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by opendoor

It's funny, even now when they're admitting mistakes, they're not even identifying the real issues.

The problem wasn't so much reopening when they did; the messaging wasn't helpful, but lots of places have reopened similarly without getting into Alberta's current situation. The issue was that the whole foundation of their decision-making was built on extremely faulty and demonstrably incorrect assumptions that hospitalizations would remain flat regardless of what cases did. And then instead of recognizing that they were wrong 6 weeks ago when it was clear that hospital usage was increasing dramatically, they just doubled down and announced they were ending widespread testing and that COVID was now endemic. Then they sat around for a month and a half doing essentially nothing, while anyone with a basic understanding of exponential growth knew what was coming.

Wait until they find out that there's data showing that hospitalizations lag cases by 2-4 weeks, and ICU stays are 2-4 weeks on average. Then they'll really need to do something!!


It boggles the mind that that they are treating current ICU cases at this point as the determinator of policy changes. This isn't new data and models have been very consistent, I also wonder how the coverage may have been different if those declaring COVID over weren't so obstinate and cruel about it.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by pepper24

They don't have staffing agencies that can fill these temporary gaps?

They don't offer OT pay for extra work?

Bring back recent retired doctors and nurses for short term help?

This isn't really fair to them as they earned their retirement and don't need to take the risk. But if they volunteer some time, that would be great. But there's also not enough nurses and doctors in the province. Many leave after school for opportunities that don't exist here. Plus, worldwide, many places are all fighting and vying for people with nursing and doctoral skills. The pool of resources is likely as low as the supply of many conspicuous consumption goods for Christmas.

However, a thought occurs to me. I seem to recall a few years ago I kept hearing about lots of nursing students and doctor students having a really hard time finding opportunities to work. Many were just picking up random shifts without the ability to get guaranteed shifts.

What if those retired doctors were to oversee a special triage which would be staffed with a lot of these nurses and doctors. They could train and guide many newly graduated or nursing/doctor students.

Kenney's not going to pay for it though, so it's not going to happen. In all honesty, I think if someone wants to support our doctors and nurses, planting some seed about rolling back his heath cuts might be something that the current nurses and doctors who are on the front lines would really appreciate.