Coronavirus All Purpose Thread: The unnecessary Dumb Dumb 4th wave

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by peter12

Hinshaw is just a bureaucrat. Appointed at the pleasure of her political masters. She is not some kind of Supreme Potentate who can just dictate provincial health policy at her whim.

You guys have her out to be some kind of fallen hero and it's ridiculous.

She has the authority(from the article above):

The CMOH clearly has the legal authority to pass public health orders even without the government’s consent.

We are at the point she should be exercising it, if the government will not. If it means she gets canned immediately after, well, at least she tried to save us. What other hope is there? #### is ####ed. Time to do whatever you can.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Admitting you are wrong is meaningless when you do nothing to fix the problem you made. People are dying needlessly under her watch. Hospitals are suffering outbreaks with patients dying, surgery canceled with no hope in sight for those bumped, staff are overworked and desperate for a break, and her response is nothing. If you consider that good, well, I'd like to apply for a job with you.

It's not that I think she's been amazing, so let's just start there. It's easy to play Monday morning QB and point to things that should've been done differently throughout the past ~19-20 months. I actually think that a huge problem is that people want certainty and think that we should know more about where we are and where we're headed than we actually do.

I can see a scenario where she takes the fall for the politicians though. She's an easy target, and frankly a lot of these decisions don't appear to be hers to make. She pointed out in the video that surfaced that they knew pretty early in August that things were not going well, and if you recall, certain individuals were on vacation at that point.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

She has the authority(from the article above):

We are at the point she should be exercising it, if the government will not. If it means she gets canned immediately after, well, at least she tried to save us. What other hope is there? #### is ####ed. Time to do whatever you can.

Health orders are relatively useless if the government doesn't provide power to the RCMP/Police to enforce it. Remember the health orders that were imposed to shut down those churches and places like the Whistle Stop? How long did that drag on.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Slava

It's not that I think she's been amazing, so let's just start there. It's easy to play Monday morning QB and point to things that should've been done differently throughout the past ~19-20 months. I actually think that a huge problem is that people want certainty and think that we should know more about where we are and where we're headed than we actually do.

I can see a scenario where she takes the fall for the politicians though. She's an easy target, and frankly a lot of these decisions don't appear to be hers to make. She pointed out in the video that surfaced that they knew pretty early in August that things were not going well, and if you recall, certain individuals were on vacation at that point.

LOL. Monday morning QBing? Really? Everyone with a brain was saying in July that the open for summer plan was a disaster. In early August, when it was becoming really apparent that it was a disaster, we again called for action. Nothing was done.

When the government abdicated responsibility in August and all took a vacation, where was she? Also invisible. So she saw things were going bad, had the power to take actions, like simple mask mandates, and did nothing. Now here we are.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Health orders are relatively useless if the government doesn't provide power to the RCMP/Police to enforce it. Remember the health orders that were imposed to shut down those churches and places like the Whistle Stop? How long did that drag on.

Does the government need to tell the RCMP to enforce these things? I'd assume if she ahs the power to implement them, then they don't need to sit around and wait for Kenney to give the OK. And lets face it, she didn't need to put super restrictive measures in place back in August. She could have implemented a mask mandate, and while enforcement may not have been perfect, it would have slowed things down, and reminded Albertans to maybe be a little more careful.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

LOL. Monday morning QBing? Really? Everyone with a brain was saying in July that the open for summer plan was a disaster. In early August, when it was becoming really apparent that it was a disaster, we again called for action. Nothing was done.

When the government abdicated responsibility in August and all took a vacation, where was she? Also invisible. So she saw things were going bad, had the power to take actions, like simple mask mandates, and did nothing. Now here we are.

It's interesting because the debate is really politicized, and there was a lot of thought that with 70% of people being vaccinated that things would be OK. That did seem to be the case in July and while things were starting to rise, they could've stepped in and taken measures, they opted to try to convince people to get vaccinated (which still remains the one way to get out of this, in my personal opinion).

And yeah, I guess she could've said in August that we should have these other measures, but I don't even know if she has that kind of power? It's not as though municipalities and other levels of government were on that train either, so there's plenty of blame to go around.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Does the government need to tell the RCMP to enforce these things? I'd assume if she ahs the power to implement them, then they don't need to sit around and wait for Kenney to give the OK. And lets face it, she didn't need to put super restrictive measures in place back in August. She could have implemented a mask mandate, and while enforcement may not have been perfect, it would have slowed things down, and reminded Albertans to maybe be a little more careful.

I don't disagree, but there is not a precedence of CMOH across Canada implementing restrictions - typically the Premier and Minister of Health are the ones who make the final decisions. Based on the pattern of delusional and vindictive behavior from our government officials, I would sway to believing that Hinshaw was making these recommendations behind the scenes, only to have it fall on deaf ears.

What I do wish, is that she would have had the nerve to make the comments she was making yesterday 4-5 weeks ago, or ideally in July, when we could have prevented the situation that is now here.

[Torture]

True, but there's also no precedent for a Government doing absolutely #### all while the healthcare system is collapsing and people are dying.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Slava

It's interesting because the debate is really politicized, and there was a lot of thought that with 70% of people being vaccinated that things would be OK. That did seem to be the case in July and while things were starting to rise, they could've stepped in and taken measures, they opted to try to convince people to get vaccinated (which still remains the one way to get out of this, in my personal opinion).

And yeah, I guess she could've said in August that we should have these other measures, but I don't even know if she has that kind of power? It's not as though municipalities and other levels of government were on that train either, so there's plenty of blame to go around.

Did you read anything I posted in the past 2 pages. Yes, she has that power. I've provided a link for it.

As to your first paragraph, there was not a "there was a lot of thought that with 70% of people being vaccinated that things would be OK." there were a lot fo experts saying that our vaccination rates were to low for it to work. And they were right.

https://globalnews.ca/news/7895997/a...sive-too-fast/

https://edmontonjournal.com/opinion/...rta-for-summer

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...date-1.6070925

https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/vigilant...pede-1.5457066

Stop pretending like this 4th wave is a total surprise. There were plenty of warnings, they were totally ignored.

[EldrickOnIce]

Obviously I am now fully Americanized, for good or bad I don't know.
The AB government's failing is in infrastructure. ICU and surgical capacity. Human HCP resources. No excuse to not be prepared to continue care for the population.
A government should not do stupid things like Texas and Florida, banning local municipalities from local mandates to protect local health.
A government should consider vaccine passports with the sole purpose of driving vaccinations. It should not be done under the guise of protecting people out and about. I expect it will not do that.
A government should not babysit us. If the antivax ers want to die for their cause, let them. In a temporary tent erected to house unvaccinated covid patients.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Slava

It's interesting because the debate is really politicized, and there was a lot of thought that with 70% of people being vaccinated that things would be OK. That did seem to be the case in July and while things were starting to rise, they could've stepped in and taken measures, they opted to try to convince people to get vaccinated (which still remains the one way to get out of this, in my personal opinion).

Wrong, and I'm so tired of seeing this everywhere. It was - and continues to be - politicized by the right. Everybody else is just trying to manage the pandemic based on facts and action. It's not political for them.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Did you read anything I posted in the past 2 pages. Yes, she has that power. I've provided a link for it.

As to your first paragraph, there was not a "there was a lot of thought that with 70% of people being vaccinated that things would be OK." there were a lot fo experts saying that our vaccination rates were to low for it to work. And they were right.

https://globalnews.ca/news/7895997/a...sive-too-fast/

https://edmontonjournal.com/opinion/...rta-for-summer

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...date-1.6070925

https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/vigilant...pede-1.5457066

Stop pretending like this 4th wave is a total surprise. There were plenty of warnings, they were totally ignored.

Did you read those articles or are you going by the headlines? There are comments in there in the vein of "we'll see what happens, but it's risky". I mean we all knew that? There's risk in re-opening and there were always going to be more cases. And spoiler...when we get through this 4th wave and re-open from it (I'm convinced that we're going to see restrictions at this point because there are no other options), there will also be more cases. And there are going to be people saying that we're re-opening from that too soon. No one is every going to agree that it's safe, so it's basically a no-win scenario.

Originally Posted by Sliver

Wrong, and I'm so tired of seeing this everywhere. It was - and continues to be - politicized by the right. Everybody else is just trying to manage the pandemic based on facts and action. It's not political for them.

No, the politicization goes both ways. The NDP is more than happy to hold press conferences saying how horrific this is, and to grandstand about the mishandling. I'm nowhere near a UCP/Kenney supporter, but I think it's pretty easy to see that.

[carmenshoes]

Just curious if Covid-19 will never go away does that mean we will have to wear masks forever?

[Hockeyguy15]

Cases isn't the problem anymore, and it wasn't going to be with vaccines. Hospitalization and ICU rates are the problem.

[peter12]

People acting like a bureaucrat can just overturn Premier and Cabinet are totally out to lunch. Even if there is some kind of legal backing to such a decision, the norms surrounding the power of the executive are extremely strong.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Slava

It's interesting because the debate is really politicized, and there was a lot of thought that with 70% of people being vaccinated that things would be OK. That did seem to be the case in July and while things were starting to rise, they could've stepped in and taken measures, they opted to try to convince people to get vaccinated (which still remains the one way to get out of this, in my personal opinion).

And yeah, I guess she could've said in August that we should have these other measures, but I don't even know if she has that kind of power? It's not as though municipalities and other levels of government were on that train either, so there's plenty of blame to go around.

A lot of people did support reopening and I don't think reopening in and of itself was a big political issue. Many people did think we would avoid a fourth wave based on the vaxx rates and case rates heading in opposite directions. But the way it was done, via stupid press conference by the UCP, making it a political move instead of a public health one, was rightly criticized by many.

Then the UCP further politicized it by refusing to take any action, including trying to get people vaccinated, once the cases and hospitalizations started skyrocketing again. So I'm not sure what you're referring to but I hardly consider some lame $100 taxpayer gift to be trying to convince people.

Not only was the reopening politicized by the UCP but so was the lack of any coherent attempts at trying to curb cases by increasing vaccinations or limiting spread.

I'm not even sure where the NDP factors in. They have no power. What exactly have the politicized? By correctly criticizing the incompetence of the UCP? It's not like they're manufacturing outrage here. They are literally just providing the same criticism as many Albertans are having about their government.

[jkflames]

https://www.660citynews.com/2021/09/...cine-passport/

News could be on it's way today or tomorrow.

[PepsiFree]

I don't think this particular revelation should be any more job-deciding than any other result thus far, but I do find it funny that there was a select group of posters agast that people would question Hinshaw because they "trust the science" (even though all the science outside of what her and Kenney were saying pointed a totally different direction) and now even Hinshaw has come out saying she ####ed it.

Obviously there's a difference between trusting the science and appeal to authority. Hopefully some have learned.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Slava

Did you read those articles or are you going by the headlines? There are comments in there in the vein of "we'll see what happens, but it's risky". I mean we all knew that? There's risk in re-opening and there were always going to be more cases. And spoiler...when we get through this 4th wave and re-open from it (I'm convinced that we're going to see restrictions at this point because there are no other options), there will also be more cases. And there are going to be people saying that we're re-opening from that too soon. No one is every going to agree that it's safe, so it's basically a no-win scenario.

Your argument was that this was Monday morning GQing, and wasn't being predicted. And ya, I read them. I didn't think I'd have to pull quotes for you, but here we go...

Dr. Craig Jenne, an infectious diseases researcher at the University of Calgary, was also surprised to see how quickly the reopening is moving.

“This does seem a bit hurried and if we look at other provinces – British Columbia for example and even Ontario – they’re aiming to try and reach something equivalent to our Stage 3 by the fall,” Jenne explained.

Talbot believes if the plan goes ahead as outlined, Alberta will see a fourth wave of COVID-19.

Dr. Noel Gibney, professor emeritus in the department of critical care medicine at the University of Alberta, said reopening now is risky.

Gibney, who also serves as co-chair of the Edmonton Zone Medical Staff Association's Pandemic Response Committee, said the province needs to carefully monitor cases and plan for the possibility of another clampdown.

He said Alberta's reopening plan was drafted before the arrival of the delta variant and fails to account for the potential impact of the highly contagious strain.

He said the rapid spread of the variant in the U.K. should serve as a warning.
Gibney expects the delta variant will become Alberta's dominant strain by the end of July and contribute to a surge of cases in September.

Almost 65 per cent of eligible Albertans have received at least one shot of the vaccine against COVID-19.
It's widely expected the world-renowned rodeo and fair will open July 9, but it is to be a scaled-down version with what Stampede officials have said will be a priority on safety. The chuckwagon races won't be held and some indoor events could be moved outdoors.
The doctors say with an increase in COVID-19 variants, this is not the time for the Stampede.
“Planning such an event with the current unknowns, along with concerns of reduced vaccine protection against highly transmissible variants, puts attendees and their contacts at risk.
“It also increases the risk of a fourth wave of COVID-19 later in the autumn of this year.”
The doctors also urge the Alberta government to step up vaccinations with mobile and 24-hour clinics as well as to prioritize second doses for high-risk groups.
“Like everyone, we sincerely hope that we are at the beginning of the end of this pandemic and not at the end of the beginning. Regardless, it is too early to declare victory over this unique and dangerous pathogen,” says the letter.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by jkflames

https://www.660citynews.com/2021/09/...cine-passport/

News could be on it's way today or tomorrow.

I'm sure this will be some half baked UCP gaslighting extravaganza that only applies to 1 dose and doesn't take effect for another 6 weeks. In the meantime we are adding new prizes to the lottery and upping the $100 bribe to $1000 and a year's supply of marlborough lites