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Old 01-15-2021, 12:06 PM   #81
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That's a pragmatist
Sure, then I'm a pragmatist.

I think most people you're defining as Centrists are in fact this. A true Centrist who's always down the middle is pretty non existent; therefore all of the things you listed really don't apply to a meaningful population of people.
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Old 01-15-2021, 12:40 PM   #82
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Sure, then I'm a pragmatist.

I think most people you're defining as Centrists are in fact this. A true Centrist who's always down the middle is pretty non existent; therefore all of the things you listed really don't apply to a meaningful population of people.
I think if you look at the history of the Democratic Party vs. the Democratic Party of the last 30 years, you'd find a pretty solid record of shifting right and capitulating to the type of centrist policies I'm describing, and it's one factor in where the U.S. finds itself today.
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Old 01-15-2021, 01:54 PM   #83
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You're definition of Centrist seems to revolve around picking the middle on all issues.
I see a Centrist as someone who is willing to look at both sides but very well may side far left or far right on any given issue; and yes down the middle on others.
It's not someone who is always in the Centre.

Iím a centrist. I am rarely directly in the middle of two opposing points, but I am even more rarely on either extreme. I would typically lean one way or another way depending on the issue, while not going completely all the way to the edge.

Take minimum wage. Should it stay at $7.25/hr? Heck no. Way too low.

Source: https://www.dol.gov/general/topic/wages/minimumwage

Should it immediately double to $15? Heck no. Way too big of step jump.

My position is somewhere in the middle.
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Old 01-15-2021, 02:09 PM   #84
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I mean that's kinda my point. On it's own the right working class will support minimum wage increases. And then FOX ties supporting the minimum wage increase with supporting Planned Parenthood, Antifa, and eventually becoming Venezuela, and it's dead. I think that's the oddest part of all of this. Abortion, for instance, rarely directly affects most voters. Minimum wage quite obviously does. And yet they are able to get people to vote against a minimum wage candidate for the anti-abortion candidate, time and time again. It's a special kind of sorcery. I think we all wish we could figure out how to break the spell.
There's no spell. There is also no such thing as "voting against ones interest". It's just that people's interests quite often are not what you think they "should be".

Personal financial interests just aren't a top voting priority for most people.

For example, let's look at that abortion vs. minimum wage thing.

That's a "do I want money for myself, if the price for it is countless babies dying" question. (Assuming you have a pro-life beliefs that is.) You have to be borderline sociopath to choose your own finances in that situation.

It's also just flat out wrong to say that this is specifically some working class thing.

Voting against a "higher minimum wage" candidate because of abortion is the exact same thing as when white upper middle-class people absolutely refuse to vote for tax-cutting candidate because they think he's a horrible racist, even when that would clearly be in their personal financial interest.

In fact it's the same thing than when any white person votes against a racist candidate. It would clearly be, on average, very much in the personal interest of white people to vote for white supremacy.

Yet pretty much nobody thinks like that. Personal benefit isn't even the reason white supremacists support white supremacy. They tend to quite genuinely believe they are doing it for the benefit of their children, and women, and the country in general.
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Old 01-15-2021, 02:15 PM   #85
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The problem isn't the term "centrist", it's the idea that there is are left and right sides at all. It's not even useful shorthand any more, if it ever was. Left and right are convenient labels that make it simple to bring entirely dissimilar issues into one ill-fitting whole , though, so they persist. Plus it's easier to entirely dismiss other people's arguments as entirely ideologically based, unlike one's own moderate and reasonable opinions based upon incontrovertible fact and logic.
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Old 01-15-2021, 02:18 PM   #86
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I propose we recentre political views with a simple question: are you pro or anti guillotine?
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Old 01-15-2021, 02:24 PM   #87
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I propose we recentre political views with a simple question: are you pro or anti guillotine?
C'mon, you know everyone is pro-guillotine except Louis XVI.
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Old 01-15-2021, 02:26 PM   #88
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I propose we recentre political views with a simple question: are you pro or anti guillotine?
Depends on whoís head is rolling.

Honestly if thousands of people stormed the capital after their representatives signed over trillions of their tax dollars to the wealthy and multinational corporations, or after the president escaped impeachment and removal after almost assured treason, Iíd probably have been cool with that.
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Old 01-15-2021, 02:43 PM   #89
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I propose we recentre political views with a simple question: are you pro or anti guillotine?
Quoted for an American spelling centre the Canadian way. I mean you might as well move up here now.
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Old 01-15-2021, 02:55 PM   #90
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Quoted for an American spelling centre the Canadian way. I mean you might as well move up here now.
Psst want to know a secret? I’m Canadian. If you think about it real hard you’ll figure out my username too.
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Old 01-15-2021, 02:56 PM   #91
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NRA is filing for bankruptcy.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1350186134815580168
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Old 01-15-2021, 02:56 PM   #92
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Iím a centrist. I am rarely directly in the middle of two opposing points, but I am even more rarely on either extreme. I would typically lean one way or another way depending on the issue, while not going completely all the way to the edge.
This is me too and what I was trying to illustrate. I guess I didn't need to use "far" left or right, but definitely left or right depending on the topic.

I don't think a Centrist as Rube described it actually exists.

It is however a useful creation for the left/right extremes to justify their positions.
Pretend everyone in the middle is also part of some unwavering predetermined position & its easier to maintain that in your own beliefs.
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Old 01-15-2021, 02:56 PM   #93
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The NRA has declared bankruptcy. Is it still politically relevant enough for this thread?
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Old 01-15-2021, 03:10 PM   #94
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C'mon, you know everyone is pro-guillotine except Louis XVI.
Yeah, but he had such an overreaction. Don't lose your head over it.
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Old 01-15-2021, 03:12 PM   #95
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Thoughts and prayers.

Seriously though, this is a very good thing for America and it deserves to be celebrated.
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Old 01-15-2021, 04:12 PM   #96
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Psst want to know a secret? Iím Canadian. If you think about it real hard youíll figure out my username too.
I figured you were a Spacehog fan lol.
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Old 01-15-2021, 04:24 PM   #97
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Financially to go with morally.
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Old 01-15-2021, 06:08 PM   #98
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Thoughts and prayers.

Seriously though, this is a very good thing for America and it deserves to be celebrated.
It really isn't, they are using it as a tool to prevent from being shut down by NY AG.


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Old 01-15-2021, 06:20 PM   #99
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It's worth remembering the left doesn't have some monopoly on the working class. We all know the GOP is exceptional at getting the right wing working class to vote against their own best interest through culture war ####. So yeah there's issues where 60% have bipartisan support, but then the GOP is able to splinter off 15-20% of that support by tying an unrelated proposal, supported by someone pushing for the 60% issue, to communism or Planned Parenthood or Antifa/BLM or whatever, and then it's dead. I mean look at how hard they are pushing Biden as some sort of gateway to communism. The left wishes Biden was half as scary as the right makes him out to be.

I guess the question now is, does the left have a monopoly on the college educated and coastal elites? Are they voting against their best interests?
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Old 01-15-2021, 06:52 PM   #100
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Calgary's least favourite son is at it again

https://twitter.com/user/status/1350256237145894913
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