I know many have big hopes for Ferland. Even if I'd share that feeling, for me there's no comparison between a promising winger and a guy that has a realistic chance of becoming a very good #1 goaltender really soon.
(Of course even most starters are just average, but Ortio does have the potential to be more than that.)
Personally I don't see that much skill in Ferland, and the type of physical game he played against the Canucks is IMO impossible to bring consistently without wrecking yourself.
I like the guy and I think he can be an important depth player, but I'm not expecting more than that.
I'll still probably vote for him next, because he's so likely to solidify his position next season.
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Ill take Poirer. I think a good comparable is a grittier Joffry Lupol. .65 career ppg player except Emile dropped the mitts 9 times over 3 seasons of JRs so he's not afraid to get dirty,
I always rank these guys based on who I'd least like to give up in a trade.
I think some posters are putting to much stalk in small sample sizes such as Ortio's callup or Ferland's playoff. It's not wise to judge these guys potential based on performances over 5 and 10 games respectively. Same thing happens with the world U20 every year.
I personally believe that goalies are hard as hell to judge. I therefore have problems placing Ortio/Gillies relative to players on other positions.
Going with Poirier. I really like what I've seen from him and I tend to favour ceiling more in rankings like this.
__________________ "I want to be a Calgary Flame for a long time" - Brian Burke (December 12th, 2013)
"I can't tell you, ya know, like, how proud I am to be a Calgary Flame. I honestly hope, ya know, like this is my last stop. I hope that I'll retire as a Calgary Flame" - Bob Hartley (April 24th, 2015)
Your logic is flawed. No way Treliving risks losing Ortio on waivers and keeps two pending UFAs.
On the fan960, Ryan and Pete were saying the Flames would not be afraid of losing Ortio on waivers, and they said there's a good chance no one would even take him. This was later echoed by Pat later on in the day. Their logic was that basically every team already has a back-up and has no need.
Ortio has had one season over 92% in his career (since 2009), and Gillies has had 3 consecutive 93%+ seasons. None of Ortio's performances at any levels were close to what Gillies has done.
Gillies basically won the NCAA this year by himself. He was also in the world juniors. He's also 6'5 and is extremely consistent.
Saying Ortio is more proven isn't really a strong point. He had an unimpressive 91.2% in the AHL this year. His NHL save percentage is a horrendous 89.9% overall. That just mean's hes proven that he has been terrible at the NHL level and average at the AHL level. It's like saying Raffi Torres is better than Connor McDavid, because Torres is more proven.
In Ortio's rookie season in the AHL, he had 89%. If Gillies is anywhere near that bad, I will be shocked.
Went with Andersson. After reading up on him, I believe he'll be one of our key pieces going forward after he gets his fitness in line. His ceiling sounds quite high.
Ill take Poirer. I think a good comparable is a grittier Joffry Lupol. .65 career ppg player except Emile dropped the mitts 9 times over 3 seasons of JRs so he's not afraid to get dirty,
I always rank these guys based on who I'd least like to give up in a trade.
I think some posters are putting to much stalk in small sample sizes such as Ortio's callup or Ferland's playoff. It's not wise to judge these guys potential based on performances over 5 and 10 games respectively. Same thing happens with the world U20 every year.
A little more detective work would show that Ferland outscored Poirier in their 3rd year of junior hockey. I'm not saying Ferland is a better scorer but he has a good history of scoring and fighting. If things work out for Ferland his physical game will give him the room to be a consistent scorer.
I don't expect Ferland to be as aggressive once he gets established, but breaking into the league, he needs to set some perimeters.
A little more detective work would show that Ferland outscored Poirier in their 3rd year of junior hockey. I'm not saying Ferland is a better scorer but he has a good history of scoring and fighting. If things work out for Ferland his physical game will give him the room to be a consistent scorer.
I don't expect Ferland to be as aggressive once he gets established, but breaking into the league, he needs to set some perimeters.
Even more detective work shows that Poirier was 18 in his third year while Ferland was 19 in his.
At 19 Poirier made the jump to the AHL and had 19 goals and 42 points (after missing training camp and having shoulder surgery).
At 19 Ferland was putting up impressive number in the WHL
At 20 Poirier will be pushing for a spot on the Flames or going into his 2nd season in the AHL
At 20 Ferland couldn't stick in the AHL or ECHL and got sent back to the WHL as an overaged player.
Even more detective work shows that Poirier was 18 in his third year while Ferland was 19 in his.
At 19 Poirier made the jump to the AHL and had 19 goals and 42 points (after missing training camp and having shoulder surgery).
At 19 Ferland was putting up impressive number in the WHL
At 20 Poirier will be pushing for a spot on the Flames or going into his 2nd season in the AHL
At 20 Ferland couldn't stick in the AHL or ECHL and got sent back to the WHL as an overaged player.
Poirier has a late birthday but that was his last year of junior, the same as Ferland's last year of junior where Ferland outscored Poirier. Yeah Ferland screwed up and ended up as an overager in junior but the point is Ferland has a history of being a scorer so you can't say one is a scorer and the other isn't and you can't say that all Ferland has is a small sample size of producing in the playoffs.
I'm not getting into a war of who is the better scorer now or potentially but I am pointing out the Ferland was also a good scorer in junior and also had some pretty good stats in Abbotsford 13/14 before he got injured.
Poirier was a late birth year and that was his last junior season but it didn't have to be. Meanwhile Ferland maxed out his junior eligibility, playing not only as a 19 year old but also as a 20 year old. Yeah it was both their final year of junior (but not really Ferland returned to a so-so overage season) but you're twisting things and taking out all context (their ages). The ages they did these things at matter a whole heck of a bunch.
I'm not trying to slight Ferland in anyway but he is not close to being on the same level of scorer that Poirier is. I guess Ferland has a history of being a scorer but it's not much of one, it's really one season, at 19, when Poirier was in the AHL.
Ferland looks like he's going to be an awesome player and if Poirier busts out he could be a better NHL player but let's not twist facts or history to pump the tires of the guy we want to vote for.
Poirier was a late birth year and that was his last junior season but it didn't have to be. Meanwhile Ferland maxed out his junior eligibility, playing not only as a 19 year old but also as a 20 year old. Yeah it was both their final year of junior (but not really Ferland returned to a so-so overage season) but you're twisting things and taking out all context (their ages). The ages they did these things at matter a whole heck of a bunch.
I'm not trying to slight Ferland in anyway but he is not close to being on the same level of scorer that Poirier is. I guess Ferland has a history of being a scorer but it's not much of one, it's really one season, at 19, when Poirier was in the AHL.
Ferland looks like he's going to be an awesome player and if Poirier busts out he could be a better NHL player but let's not twist facts or history to pump the tires of the guy we want to vote for.
I'm not twisting history, in their same comparable birth year, which junior hockey goes by, Ferland outscored Poirier. Yeah Poirier was younger by some months but if he went back to junior, it would have been as an overager.
I went with Ortio. He has already shown he can play at the NHL level. I think this year he makes the team out of camp, then possibly gets some starting time. We saw last year that Hartley is confident to ride Ortio if he's playing well. I want to see more of that this year.
Saying Ortio is more proven isn't really a strong point. He had an unimpressive 91.2% in the AHL this year. His NHL save percentage is a horrendous 89.9% overall. That just mean's hes proven that he has been terrible at the NHL level and average at the AHL level. It's like saying Raffi Torres is better than Connor McDavid, because Torres is more proven.
You're using pretty much the weakest possible stat based argument.
Here's a few examples of AHL save percentages:
Tuukka Rask .905
Pekka Rinne .904 - .920 - .908
Roberto Luongo .908 - .917
Based on your logic, all those guys "proved" themselves to be below average AHL goalies.
Corey Crawford might not be an elite goalie, but he's the last guy to win a cup. He played a ton in the AHL, posting decisively unimpressive save percentages ( .898, .909, .907, .920, .909)
(Ortios AHL sv% for his last two seasons are .926 and .912 for those who don't care enough to look it up.)
As for proving something, last season Ortio won 4 of 6 games, one of which was a 36-save shutout against Vancouver, and another a 2-1 OT win against LA (34 SA). Yes, he did have bad games too, but he still absolutely proved that he has the potential to a very good starter.
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His NHL save percentage is a horrendous 89.9% overall. That just mean's hes proven that he has been terrible at the NHL level and average at the AHL level.
He played 6 games in the NHL last season. He won 4 of those, had one shutout, a goals against of 2.52 and a save percentage of .908
If you're not a fan of Ortio's that's fine, but he hasn't been 'terrible'.
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