I've seen more than a few posters blame our goaltending for losses recently, and it made me wonder whether having "the 2nd best goalie on the ice" is the reason we're losing (hint: it's not).
My criteria is that if the flames scored 3+ goals and lost, it's on the goalie (I feel this is a fair cut-off, as the average goals per game for the NHL this season is 2.93), and if we scored 2 or fewer, it's not on the goalie.
Looking at our calendar, out of our 29 (counting ot losses), we have 25 losses in which we scored 2 or fewer, so that's 86.2% of our losses in which our offense failed to provide enough offense to win, and the loss can't be blamed on our goaltending.
Even if we moved the cut off to 1 or fewer goals (which I think it's unreasonable, considering average goals against is 2.73 goals per game), that's still 16 losses, making up 55.2%.
Now I suppose you could argue that bad goaltending early in games lets the air out of the tires, and team can't get it going after that. That might explain some % of the losses I'm talking about, but certainly not enough to consistently point to our goaltending as the reason for our lack of success.
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Originally Posted by snipetype
k im just not going to respond to your #### anymore because i have better things to do like #### my model girlfriend rather then try to convince people like you of commonly held hockey knowledge.
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Nobody I know thinks the Flames have scored enough this year
Doesn’t mean the goaltending has been fine though. It’s been below average too
Whole team effort
Markstrom has a 2.70 gaa whereas the average in the NHL is 2.73. Technically above average (although sightly below average in save %)!!
You're right though, Markstrom isn't necessarily stealing a lot of games either.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snipetype
k im just not going to respond to your #### anymore because i have better things to do like #### my model girlfriend rather then try to convince people like you of commonly held hockey knowledge.
I've seen more than a few posters blame our goaltending for losses recently, and it made me wonder whether having "the 2nd best goalie on the ice" is the reason we're losing (hint: it's not).
My criteria is that if the flames scored 3+ goals and lost, it's on the goalie (I feel this is a fair cut-off, as the average goals per game for the NHL this season is 2.93), and if we scored 2 or fewer, it's not on the goalie.
Looking at our calendar, out of our 29 (counting ot losses), we have 25 losses in which we scored 2 or fewer, so that's 86.2% of our losses in which our offense failed to provide enough offense to win, and the loss can't be blamed on our goaltending.
Even if we moved the cut off to 1 or fewer goals (which I think it's unreasonable, considering average goals against is 2.73 goals per game), that's still 16 losses, making up 55.2%.
Now I suppose you could argue that bad goaltending early in games lets the air out of the tires, and team can't get it going after that. That might explain some % of the losses I'm talking about, but certainly not enough to consistently point to our goaltending as the reason for our lack of success.
Thanks for doing the numbers, I totally agree with this 100%. The only time I've felt we legitimately had goaltending issues was when we had Hiller and Elliott. Aside from that we give up opportunities that the opponent capitalizes yet we don't do the same.
Markstrom has a 2.70 gaa whereas the average in the NHL is 2.73. Technically above average (although sightly below average in save %)!!
You're right though, Markstrom isn't necessarily stealing a lot of games either.
Sutter has dialed shots and scoring chances down dramatically. He usually as a coach has goalies putting up top tier stats, due in no small part to team D.
He deliberately plays low event hockey where both teams score less, so average GAA is basically below average
Edit: Jonathan Quick in LA was below 2.30 for 5 years out of 6 under Darryl
Good to look for the positives but Markstrom seems to be a blocking style goalie with suspect rebound control. Frankly, he frightens me. Then confirms my fears on far more given nights than he allays them
Meantime, the team in front of him sucks offensively too
I don’t blame the goalie for the team results this year, but as I mentioned to another poster, I’d take Talbot at 3 x 3.7 over Markstrom at 6 x 6 all day, any and every day
Last edited by DeluxeMoustache; 05-05-2021 at 11:02 PM.
Reason: Added Quick data point
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My criteria is that if the flames scored 3+ goals and lost, it's on the goalie (I feel this is a fair cut-off, as the average goals per game for the NHL this season is 2.93), and if we scored 2 or fewer, it's not on the goalie.
Under Sutter their 5v5 save percentage of 90.48% has been the third worst in the league.
You can talk about goals allowed or goals scored but at the end of the day, you need more saves. It's easier to score a goal in a 0-0 game than it is in a 0-1 game. It's easier to score a goal in a 2-1 game than it is a 1-2 game.
Chasing games is a recipe for reduced goal scoring, and when your goalie doesn't make saves, that happens.
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Before tonight Markstom's goals against average in the last 10 games was below 2 with a .927 and he had 5 wins.
That is ridiculous.
Markstrom was poor for 12 games or so coming back from the injury for sure and can be better. Hopefully next year he is better overall and the team is far better.
If you blame a goalie on a break away or a 2 on 0 though IDK what to say
Talbot has good numbers...he is also on a good defensive team in a division this year where he plays 2 teams that can score and 5 teams that can't. Markstrom played McDavid 10X
If you want to hitch your wagon to the Smith/Talbot are better than Markstom wagon go for it...for me Makstom is the better goalie though. Guys have off years, Talbot had an .881 a couple years back.
If you want to hitch your wagon to the Smith/Talbot are better than Markstom wagon go for it...I'm pretty certain who is the better goalie is, guys have down years
lol. Sounds like the sand in head storytelling logic that keeps this team in perpetual mediocrity. Despite absolutely all evidence to the contrary, he’s just … better
Because, you know… he is
You can’t reason somebody out of a position they didn’t reason them self in to
This guy will have fine stats under Sutter so you will have that to look forward to
If Markstrom’s current goals against average of 2.67 holds through the end of the year, it would be his best mark since 2016-17, albeit barely.
He is what he is. He’s a reliable NHL starter who’s spent his entire career on crappy Panther teams, crappy Canucks teams, and now a crappy Flames team.
He isn’t Miikka Kiprusoff.
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Calgary’s main issue is a lack of offense and game breakers up front. Gaudreau and Lindholm should be the 2nd and 3rd best forwards. They are missing that #1 forward.
Markstrom has been average. If it was a report card I think a grade around a C or C - would be fair for him. He hasn’t been awful but he hasn’t been great. His best season came last year in Vancouver when he finished 4th in Vezina voting. I think he will be better next year to get to a grade at least of a B but he doesn’t scare a rival team like Kiprusoff did. Kiprusoff would get in your head.
Talbot has also finished 4th in Vezina voting in the last 5 years as well. He is a good goalie and has put up good career numbers. He had an off year as well a few years back.
But beyond goaltending as mentioned, the offense is Calgary’s main issue.
lol. Sounds like the sand in head storytelling logic that keeps this team in perpetual mediocrity. Despite absolutely all evidence to the contrary, he’s just … better
Because, you know… he is
You can’t reason somebody out of a position they didn’t reason them self in to
This guy will have fine stats under Sutter so you will have that to look forward to
NHL executives poll thought he was the 6th best goalie in the league and GMs voted him 4th for the Vezina
Heck Oilers offered him a 7 year deal while Smith was swinging in the wind
He was the Canucks MVP 2 seasons in a row its not like I'm just making it up some unknown goalie is better. Markstom was #2 on every UFA list I saw last year and Talbot was in the 20s?
Next few years I think its a fairly safe bet that Markstom is the better goalie of the three but you never know I guess.
Who cares? The Vezina voting happens every year and he didn’t win. He got the ‘we think this goalie on a crappy team may actually be quite good’ vote. The smartest guy in the room stuff that Tre seems to like
And the Vezina isn’t awarded for 6 years. Andrew Raycroft had a real good season in Boston. How were Andrew Raycroft’s 6 years following the good one in Boston?
Oilers may have dodged a bullet. Sucks because they are no good, but who cares?
Two things we know
This team wasn’t winning with any goalie, this year is not on him.
Flames did go 6 x 6 on a career year, banking that he was a difference maker. He was not in year 1
I think it's natural to look at Markstrom's performance, since last year the Flames were an average team and this year they are a bad team and Markstrom is the biggest addition to the roster.
To have a record of 22-26-3, a lot of different things have to go wrong though
We'll see when the Oilers have a 40 year old goalie for a starter next year
My only point is that its not just "reasons" NHL execs also think Marktrom is a great goalie...IMO he had a tough season and will bounce back. His numbers from his first 10 games and last 10 games are REALLY good. Hopefully more of that next year with a full offseason and training camp ect.
I think Markstrom has been slightly worse than advertised this year but he'll likely bounce back.
This Flames team doesn't score nearly enough goals. Looking at the forward depth most nights, it's hardly a surprise.
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I think it's natural to look at Markstrom's performance, since last year the Flames were an average team and this year they are a bad team and Markstrom is the biggest addition to the roster.
To have a record of 22-26-3, a lot of different things have to go wrong though
Based on the last line in this post:
Honest question just for an understanding from Calgary fans. What are the thoughts on Sutter?
Under Ward they were 11-11-2 and Sutter’s record is 11-14. They were 0-1-1 in the 2 games before he could physically be there.
Record doesn’t mean everything as systems seem to be better on defense under Sutter however the offense is struggling. What letter grades would Ward and Sutter get?
It's all the Goalie's Fault!
