[Rumour] Friedman: Devils/Coyotes are finalizing Hall trade

[TheScorpion]

Players develop, dissentowner. Skewing Taylor Hall's statistics by including his metrics for his whole career is rather disingenuous. Hall has played under different systems and in different cities and he has been in different developmental stages of his career.

A three-year sample is more than fair to assess Hall. He's been playing in a relatively stable environment with the same head coach and has been in his prime ever since 2016.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Kovaz specifically said the past 3 years... you aren’t a fan of “what have you done lately”?

Ok great, so if I cherry pick three years of Cheechoo's career should we go bring him onboard because he is an elite goal scorer? Taking a sample size and trying to use it as an argument is weak. Go to the Devils board on HF and see what they say about Taylor Hall's defensive play. Anyone arguing he is a 200 foot player is just looking like a fool so fill your boots.

[Scroopy Noopers]

“You made that stat up, y’all are embarrassing”

“Here’s the stat”

“Yeah but that stat is whack, let’s only use the eye test and message board opinions!”

[TheScorpion]

No, because Cheechoo is 39 years old and retired. The most favourable three-year sample of Cheechoo's career begins 14 years ago.

Nobody is cherrypicking three random years of Taylor Hall's career in this thread. We're simply looking at his most recent three years of hockey. Most analytical assessment tools do the exact same thing. Three-year samples are widely accepted and used.

When Taylor Hall is on the ice, the Devils play substantially better hockey than they do when he is on the bench. It's not rocket surgery.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Who said Taylor Hall is a 200 foot player????

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by slcrocket

Exactly, take it one step further - his points per game since 2010 (his draft year) exceeds that of Joe Thornton, Patrice Bergeron, Erik Karlsson, Eric Staal, Jakub Voracek, Jonathan Toews, Joe Pavelski, Brad Marchand, Tyler Seguin, Jamie Benn, Anze Kopitar, Blake Wheeler, and Phil Kessel over that same span.

But by all means, let's not trade this guy 1-for-1 for Dillon Dube. You guys blow my mind sometimes.

And what good is that if he is injured half the year? This board has lost its damn mind! You want to trade cost controlled good assets for a one dimensional constantly injured player who is going to want 10M a year. He doesn't even fit a positional need. A player his current teams fans don't even want to keep because of his decisions on rhe ice. It is unbelievable.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

“You made that stat up, y’all are embarrassing”

“Here’s the stat”

“Yeah but that stat is whack, let’s only use the eye test and message board opinions!”

Lol, I said use his whole career. Anything else you want to fabricate? I an happy to keep engaging so you can continue to look foolish.

[Vinny01]

If the Flames trade for Hall it is because he is part of their long term plan. They would have good insight from Ward as he spent 2 seasons with him in NJ so they would know what kind of teammate they would be getting.

He is an elite player and right now the price of the 2020 season. Imagine the Flames acquire him next week and he is in the Flaming C on the 27th in Edmonton. The fact he was their golden boy adds delicious salt to the equation and adds to my hope the Flames win the sweepstakes.

I do not have twitter but I have been searching Hall and Flames today and it appears there is smoke but very little is credible. Hall doesn’t fit the need for a right shot center or wing but he is an elite talent and would give the Flames 5 first line forwards.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Kovaz

Gaudreau, Monahan, Tkachuk, Lindholm, Backlund all allow more goals against and chances against than Hall over the last 3 years.

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I love how people thank a post without doing research. All those players have better career numbers in that category than Hall who without that MVP season is a huge negative career wise. Please show me this chances against stat. Some serious sheep mentality on some posters here.

Originally Posted by Kovaz

Goals Against per 60 minutes (2016-2019)
Taylor Hall: 2.31
Matthew Tkachuk: 2.38
Mikael Backlund: 2.44
Johnny Gaudreau: 2.60
Sean Monahan: 2.68


Expected Goals Against per 60 minutes (2016-2019)
Taylor Hall: 2.14
Matthew Tkachuk: 2.20
Mikael Backlund: 2.20
Johnny Gaudreau: 2.32
Sean Monahan: 2.44


Did you think I just made that up? Funny that you'd call people out for not doing research while simultaneously being wrong about such an easy-to-research stat.

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Lol, I said use his whole career. Anything else you want to fabricate? I an happy to keep engaging so you can continue to look foolish.

What? You called people sheep for thanking a specifically worded stat... then requested more research you could have done yourself.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

What? You called people sheep for thanking a specifically worded stat... then requested more research you could have done yourself.

Can you not read???? I clearly said to look at it over those players careers. What don't you understand? Thanks for proving my point.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

You are cherry picking three years. Do it for their whole careers and come back. You are using one great year to skewer the stats. Nice try. Funny how many posters fall for that.

Sounds like you're arguing for the sake of arguing. Wouldn't the three most recent years be the most accurate?

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Can you not read???? I clearly said to look at it over those players careers. What don't you understand? Thanks for proving my point.

Yes but nobody was talking about career numbers!!!! We still aren’t.

[TheScorpion]

Taylor Hall's relative puck possession statistics for his whole career:

2010-11: +5.4%
2011-12: +6.2%
2012-13: +8.4%
2013-14: -0.4%
2014-15: +4.4%
2015-16: +5.2%
2016-17: +7.6%
2017-18: +5.0%
2018-19: +6.5%
2019-20: +1.2%

That's a pretty good resume.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Yes but nobody was talking about career numbers!!!! We still aren’t.

Yet the original post tried to use stats to say Taylor Hall is better defensively then those players. So you think Hall is better than Michael Backlund defensively huh? Of course you don't want to use career numbers on a player that is -21 for his career

[Kovaz]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Taylor Hall's relative puck possession statistics for his whole career:

...
2013-14: -0.4%
...

That's a pretty good resume.

See? He's terrible.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Yet the original post tried to use stats to say Taylor Hall is better defensively then those players. So you think Hall is better than Michael Backlund defensively huh?

Yup, that’s exactly what I’m saying. Hell. Better than Gio even.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Yup, that’s exactly what I’m saying. Hell. Better than Gio even.

I can believe you believe that too.

[TheScorpion]

While I disagree that Hall is better defensively than Giordano or Backlund, I do believe wholeheartedly that he would do more than both players on a more consistent basis going forward to help this team win hockey games. That's all that matters.

[Kovaz]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Yet the original post tried to use stats to say Taylor Hall is better defensively then those players. So you think Hall is better than Michael Backlund defensively huh? Of course you don't want to use career numbers on a player that is -21 for his career

Let's go back to the original point I was refuting.

Originally Posted by dissentowner

His teams bleed goals when he is on the ice

Since he's been in New Jersey, his teams allow goals at a lower rate than Monahan, Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Backlund, or Lindholm on the Flames.

[Manhattanboy]

This is exciting no?