American Politics Thread: The Hunt for Blue November

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by bizkitgto

Bold move, considering many believe Florida will decide the election... anymore remember Gore/Bush?

Kavanaugh does since he just argued the exact opposite of what he did then. Used to be all about counting all ballots down to the last one received. Funny how things change.

[Nyah]

69 million votes cast already with a week left to go. Amazing.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1321186239798759425

[HockeyIlliterate]

Originally Posted by New Era

This means one of two things.

***

2) They believe they have the books cooked in Florida guaranteeing a victory. With the shenanigans going on the state that is indeed possible. with DeSantis in power I can easily see a systemic failure coming up that will give the state to Florida. I would not put it past DeSantis to appoint faithless electors to represent Florida in the Electoral College and guarantee the delivery of the state to Trump, regardless of the popular vote in Florida.

I would lean to the faithless elector scenario as this has been floated a number of times, and DeSantis is a big enough ######bag to follow this route. That would mean Trump can pour money into Pennsylvania and Ohio, his only path to victory and secure the EC votes that would not come from Republican controlled states who would follow through on the appointment of faithless electors.

No can do. Supreme Court ruled this year that “The 538 people who cast the actual votes for president in December as part of the Electoral College are not free agents and must vote as the laws of their states direct” and “presidential electors must act as their states require, which in most of the nation means voting for the candidate who won the popular vote in their states.”

See https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/sup...toral-n1231394

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by HockeyIlliterate

No can do. Supreme Court ruled this year that “The 538 people who cast the actual votes for president in December as part of the Electoral College are not free agents and must vote as the laws of their states direct” and “presidential electors must act as their states require, which in most of the nation means voting for the candidate who won the popular vote in their states.”

See https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/sup...toral-n1231394

'act as their states require' doesnt mean following the popular vote though, different states have different rules as to how their rep's should vote and who gets to tell them what to do

[GGG]

Originally Posted by HockeyIlliterate

No can do. Supreme Court ruled this year that “The 538 people who cast the actual votes for president in December as part of the Electoral College are not free agents and must vote as the laws of their states direct” and “presidential electors must act as their states require, which in most of the nation means voting for the candidate who won the popular vote in their states.”

See https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/sup...toral-n1231394

This site claims that since there are no penalties in the legislation in Florida a faithless elector would count as cast.

https://www.fairvote.org/faithless_elector_state_laws

If you want to burn down your country that would be one way to start Mr Coffee’s nightmare scenarios.

[Looch City]

Originally Posted by Nyah

69 million votes cast already with a week left to go. Amazing.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1321186239798759425

I hope Trump is ####ting his pants while crying and shouting at Melania that this is all her fault and he takes no responsibility.

[Inglewood Jack]

Originally Posted by Nyah

69 million votes cast already with a week left to go. Amazing Nice.

fyp

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Looks like that Bloomberg story I posted earlier is inaccurate. They just switched who is paying for it, but they are indeed still running ads in Florida.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1321179169842188303

[HockeyIlliterate]

This appears to be the relevant statutes in Florida: http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/...0103/0103.html

Notably, that:

“Votes cast for the actual candidates for President and Vice President shall be counted as votes cast for the presidential electors supporting such candidates. The Department of State shall certify as elected the presidential electors of the candidates for President and Vice President who receive the highest number of votes.“

And:

“Each such elector shall be a qualified elector of the party he or she represents who has taken an oath that he or she will vote for the candidates of the party that he or she is nominated to represent. The Governor shall certify to the Department of State on or before September 1, in each presidential election year, the names of a number of electors for each political party equal to the number of senators and representatives which this state has in Congress.”

It seems pretty clear to me that the popular vote winner is who the electors must vote for and if any “fix” were in, it was in before September 1st.

Is there any stated penalty for violating these Statutes? I don’t know, but just violating any general Florida law would presumably have some sort of penalty or remedy. But I’m not licensed in Florida so maybe not.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by HockeyIlliterate

No can do. Supreme Court ruled this year that “The 538 people who cast the actual votes for president in December as part of the Electoral College are not free agents and must vote as the laws of their states direct” and “presidential electors must act as their states require, which in most of the nation means voting for the candidate who won the popular vote in their states.”

See https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/sup...toral-n1231394

I didn't suggest the faithless elector would go rogue, just that the faithless elector would follow through on the wishes of the state and not the wishes of the voter. In the scenario in question, Biden could carry the popular vote in Florida, earning the electoral college votes that should come with that result. But DeSantis, being the leader of the body that appoints the representatives to the Electoral College, could send delegates with the expressed instructions to vote for Trump, nullifying the vote in Florida and the wishes of the electorate. That constitutes a faithless elector. It is an option, and one the Republicans have bounced around. This is a real possibility.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Looks like that Bloomberg story I posted earlier is inaccurate. They just switched who is paying for it, but they are indeed still running ads in Florida.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1321179169842188303

Or does that mean the Trump campiagn has decided not to spend anymore money there, and so now the RNC has stepped in to keep it going?

[Poster]

Originally Posted by New Era

I didn't suggest the faithless elector would go rogue, just that the faithless elector would follow through on the wishes of the state and not the wishes of the voter. In the scenario in question, Biden could carry the popular vote in Florida, earning the electoral college votes that should come with that result. But DeSantis, being the leader of the body that appoints the representatives to the Electoral College, could send delegates with the expressed instructions to vote for Trump, nullifying the vote in Florida and the wishes of the electorate. That constitutes a faithless elector. It is an option, and one the Republicans have bounced around. This is a real possibility.

For Laymen are you saying the citizens of FL could vote for Biden but the Governor can tell the electoral college to vote for Trump?

I feel I am missing something.

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Poster

For Laymen are you saying the citizens of FL could vote for Biden but the Governor can tell the electoral college to vote for Trump?

I feel I am missing something.

I'm pretty sure that would be the start of another Civil War. The riots that would ensue, followed by Trump (who would win because of that) ordering in the military, followed by all the Trump-f***ers with their semi-automatic "protection" rifles rolling up.

My God. There would anarchy literally everywhere in the US.

[Poster]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

I'm pretty sure that would be the start of another Civil War. The riots that would ensue, followed by Trump (who would win because of that) ordering in the military, followed by all the Trump-f***ers with their semi-automatic "protection" rifles rolling up.

My God. There would anarchy literally everywhere in the US.

there has to be something i am missing, otherwise why even bother having an election, just have the GOverners instruct the Electoral College.

hoping someone can clarify.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Poster

there has to be something i am missing, otherwise why even bother having an election, just have the GOverners instruct the Electoral College.

hoping someone can clarify.

well the part you are missing is where you think the US is a democracy where as in truth it is a republic, two wholly different beasts

[Poster]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

well the part you are missing is where you think the US is a democracy where as in truth it is a republic, two wholly different beasts

Fair if you want to be technical. Doesn’t really answer my question though.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Poster

there has to be something i am missing, otherwise why even bother having an election, just have the GOverners instruct the Electoral College.

hoping someone can clarify.

Not really missing anything. The electoral college representatives act on behalf of their constituents, and I believe were installed to act in good faith. The construct was likely in part to have someone who could advocate for the constituents, understand and communicate the issues the average person may not fully appreciate, and somewhat to protect against the threat of misinformation, demagogues and the like on an uninformed public

It has been generally accepted practice that the electors reflect the majority of voters. But technically, they could decide to instruct otherwise

And if ever there was a government willing to allow it, that would be the incumbent

[GGG]

Originally Posted by New Era

I didn't suggest the faithless elector would go rogue, just that the faithless elector would follow through on the wishes of the state and not the wishes of the voter. In the scenario in question, Biden could carry the popular vote in Florida, earning the electoral college votes that should come with that result. But DeSantis, being the leader of the body that appoints the representatives to the Electoral College, could send delegates with the expressed instructions to vote for Trump, nullifying the vote in Florida and the wishes of the electorate. That constitutes a faithless elector. It is an option, and one the Republicans have bounced around. This is a real possibility.

How are electors appointed in Florida. I thought the winning party was involved in selecting their electors.

Edit: Appears pretty bullet proof in Florida unless the democrats really screwed up

103.021 Nomination for presidential electors.—Candidates for presidential electors shall be nominated in the following manner:
(1) The Governor shall nominate the presidential electors of each political party. The state executive committee of each political party shall by resolution recommend candidates for presidential electors and deliver a certified copy thereof to the Governor before September 1 of each presidential election year. The Governor shall nominate only the electors recommended by the state executive committee of the respective political party. Each such elector shall be a qualified elector of the party he or she represents who has taken an oath that he or she will vote for the candidates of the party that he or she is nominated to represent. The Governor shall certify to the Department of State on or before September 1, in each presidential election year, the names of a number of electors for each political party equal to the number of senators and representatives which this state has in Congress.

So the representatives should already be selected per state law.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/.../0103.021.html

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by HockeyIlliterate

This appears to be the relevant statutes in Florida: http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/...0103/0103.html

Notably, that:

“Votes cast for the actual candidates for President and Vice President shall be counted as votes cast for the presidential electors supporting such candidates. The Department of State shall certify as elected the presidential electors of the candidates for President and Vice President who receive the highest number of votes.“

And:

“Each such elector shall be a qualified elector of the party he or she represents who has taken an oath that he or she will vote for the candidates of the party that he or she is nominated to represent. The Governor shall certify to the Department of State on or before September 1, in each presidential election year, the names of a number of electors for each political party equal to the number of senators and representatives which this state has in Congress.”

It seems pretty clear to me that the popular vote winner is who the electors must vote for and if any “fix” were in, it was in before September 1st.

Is there any stated penalty for violating these Statutes? I don’t know, but just violating any general Florida law would presumably have some sort of penalty or remedy. But I’m not licensed in Florida so maybe not.

Originally Posted by New Era

I didn't suggest the faithless elector would go rogue, just that the faithless elector would follow through on the wishes of the state and not the wishes of the voter. In the scenario in question, Biden could carry the popular vote in Florida, earning the electoral college votes that should come with that result. But DeSantis, being the leader of the body that appoints the representatives to the Electoral College, could send delegates with the expressed instructions to vote for Trump, nullifying the vote in Florida and the wishes of the electorate. That constitutes a faithless elector. It is an option, and one the Republicans have bounced around. This is a real possibility.

Originally Posted by Poster

there has to be something i am missing, otherwise why even bother having an election, just have the GOverners instruct the Electoral College.

hoping someone can clarify.

Poster, you're not missing anything, New Era is.
Based on what HockeyIlliterate posted, the law states that the people of Florida are essentially voting for a slate of electors that have taken an oath to vote for a certain candidate, and that the Department of State must certify/send the electors that are attached to the candidates that the people voted for.

The Governor can't just send whoever he wants, nor can he tell them to vote differently than they've pledged to do (also, why would they, they're from the party of the winner). Doing either of those things would be illegal.

Based on the Supreme Court decision, the electors must vote as the state law determines, so for Florida to go rogue, a lot of things that have already been deemed illegal would have to happen.
Not much of a chance it can happen, or would hold up.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

Somebody needs to convince me that the spikes in republican registration in the key states to a Trump victory like PA,AZ,NC,Fl are not a red flag that there is organized cheating going on. I know all the studies saying flat out cheating is rare in past elections, but I'm sure it could be done with some organization. If you could get a list with inactive voters and register in their name, you could get a mail in ballot or vote in states without voter id laws.

I was watching the beat with Ari Melber and in the opening segment with his guests he laid out (paraphrase):

'Potentially troubling for GOP is the new voter registration demographic is not typical of their base'

What if there is a scheme as you describe? Trump either gets away with it or it is discovered and he has then created the evidence for voter fraud and ultimately election results are thrown out and its in the scotus.

Trump already mused about his base doing this. If this new voter demographic is something that could be painted on progressives and their disdain for Biden the social media posts are already in place ie roll on the tape on all the negative Biden stuff - Joe Rogan!

From the right winger pov: long term this cleaves the left (subsequently curbing any mainstreaming of progressive ideas) while short term they get second term with scotus majority.

I don't want to think like this but I truly think the GOP - right wing have some thing in the works. However if you look at where Trump is stumping it looks like he is on defensive (is this the plan).