New conceptual plan to redevelop area around McMahon Stadium

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by MegaErtz

I honestly think Calgary would have a better chance of getting an MLB franchise, and that obviously isn't going to happen.

17 dates of 18k is way more feasible than 81 games at 30k+

[MegaErtz]

Just look at the cities that have been awarded or are in the running to get MLS franchises:

San Diego
St Louis
Detroit
Las Vegas
Indianapolis
Phoenix

[bob-loblaw]

Originally Posted by getbak

On the drawings, the buildings that are a light pink colour will be parkades. There will be a 500 spot parkade in that big building north east of McMahon (although, since it's earmarked as residential and hotel space, I don't know how much will be public parking). There will also be another parkade as part of the development north of 24th Ave on what is currently a surface parking lot at the University.


Also, on the long-term plan, the Stamps' practice field will have a multi-story parkade built below it, similar to the parkade with the soccer field on top of it at SAIT.

They should build a parkade underneath the McMahon playing field too.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by MegaErtz

As a big soccer fan, I'd love to see an MLS team come to Calgary. Unfortunately I just don't think we have the numbers to get even 5,000 supporters out to each match, especially considering the fact that the stadium would have to either be entirely indoors or have a retractable roof. The season usually starts in very early March and playoffs finish around Remembrance Day, which means that Calgary wouldn't be a suitable city to host outdoor matches before May and after September.

In the hypothetical that Calgary could actually get a MLS team, do you believe that the venue would have to be indoors because of the casual crowd of Calgary, or purely because of the climate? Denver I believe has an outdoor stadium, and they can face the same problems that Calgary can face weather wise.

Plus, soccer in a indoor venue sucks atmosphere wise.

[troutman]

Denver has on average about 30 more frost free days than Calgary. 145 to 115.

Salt Lake around 200 days.

[MegaErtz]

Originally Posted by Joborule

In the hypothetical that Calgary could actually get a MLS team, do you believe that the venue would have to be indoors because of the casual crowd of Calgary, or purely because of the climate? Denver I believe has an outdoor stadium, and they can face the same problems that Calgary can face weather wise.

Plus, soccer in a indoor venue sucks atmosphere wise.

There aren't enough CFL fans in Calgary to justify the tremendous cost of building an indoor stadium, which is why we're stuck with McMahon, which needs a good knocking down in my opinion. The climate means that it just wouldn't be feasible to have an outdoor stadium, just like Las Vegas wouldn't be able to have an MLS team outdoors due to extreme heat.

Calgary's population is about twice as big as it was back when I first started going to Stamps games, and it isn't anywhere near big enough to have an MLS team. You'd need someone like Stan Kroenke to bring a team here, and we're already lucky enough to have our Stan Kroenke in Margaret Southern, who has been footing the bill for Cavalry FC for years. Without her, there's simply no way Calgary could support the kind of wage bill they're paying now.

[JBR]

This will never, ever be completed in my lifetime. Hate to be the downer... but I have no faith in the City at all.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Joborule

In the hypothetical that Calgary could actually get a MLS team, do you believe that the venue would have to be indoors because of the casual crowd of Calgary, or purely because of the climate? Denver I believe has an outdoor stadium, and they can face the same problems that Calgary can face weather wise.

Plus, soccer in a indoor venue sucks atmosphere wise.

Denver and Calgary have similar weather but Denver's average high/low temperatures are 5 - 10 deg C higher all year around and they start getting into double digit highs in February and don't start getting close to freezing until end of December.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by MegaErtz

There aren't enough CFL fans in Calgary to justify the tremendous cost of building an indoor stadium, which is why we're stuck with McMahon, which needs a good knocking down in my opinion. The climate means that it just wouldn't be feasible to have an outdoor stadium, just like Las Vegas wouldn't be able to have an MLS team outdoors due to extreme heat.

Calgary's population is about twice as big as it was back when I first started going to Stamps games, and it isn't anywhere near big enough to have an MLS team. You'd need someone like Stan Kroenke to bring a team here, and we're already lucky enough to have our Stan Kroenke in Margaret Southern, who has been footing the bill for Cavalry FC for years. Without her, there's simply no way Calgary could support the kind of wage bill they're paying now.

I could understand if for Calgary's climate, there is no alternative but an indoor stadium for the cooler months of the season.

Is CFL a good base to judge if MLS could do well in Calgary? Vancouver doesn't give a #### about the CFL at all, nor does Toronto. But their MLS teams seem to have pretty good support in relation. I think that you also have the factor in league prestige in those cities. They are selective in what they want to spend their money on since there's lots of entertainment options. So they wouldn't want to spend money on a lower tier league like the CFL since they're more interested in the NFL which is somewhat physically accessible. But MLS is the highest tier for soccer on the continent, so they are willing to spend for that. So is Calgary similar? Would the general population interest in soccer high enough that perhaps MLS could work?

Just based off of this article on 2019 numbers. Some spots in high pop. cities don't have the greatest numbers. Granted there's a lot more competing interests. Calgary wouldn't haven't that issue as MLS would immediately be the 2nd biggest league in prestige in the city.

https://soccerstadiumdigest.com/2019-mls-attendance/

[Erick Estrada]

MLS is a non-starter in Calgary without an indoor stadium as it's just too cold in March/April. A big issue for the Cannons was poor early season attendance due to cold and postponed games/series due to snow.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

MLS is a non-starter in Calgary without an indoor stadium as it's just too cold in March/April. A big issue for the Cannons was poor early season attendance due to cold and postponed games/series due to snow.

It can snow right up to the May long weekend. June is the rainiest month in Calgary. Frost can return by Labour Day. Two months of reliable weather.

[MegaErtz]

Charlotte just paid $325 million US to get an expansion team, which is $396m CAD. On top of that, you'd need to build a brand new indoor stadium with at least 20,000 seats, which would likely cost at least another $400m.

Calgary wouldn't even been in the top fifty metro areas to get an MLS franchise.

[Thunderball]

MLS is a non-starter. CSA and CONCACAF will not approve a top division Canadian team in any league but CanPL going forward. Better chance of the Whitecaps and CF Montreal being forced to CanPL in 10 years than Calgary getting a MLS team. CanPL would need to fold before MLS is an option, and with a few good seasons and the hype of WC 2026, CanPL could easily hit CFL levels of revenue and salary caps. CONCACAF also re-did Champions League for that exact reason. Getting other leagues more exposure to bigger money draws to grow them.

That said, would Cavalry ever use McMahon? Doubtful... unless they needed it for a big draw like CONCACAF Champions League against top MLS/LigaMX opponents or their stadia are under construction or renovation.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

MLS is a non-starter in Calgary without an indoor stadium as it's just too cold in March/April. A big issue for the Cannons was poor early season attendance due to cold and postponed games/series due to snow.

It would need to be partially covered and offer some wind protection, but I don't think a fully indoor stadium would ever happen even some eccentric billionaire brought NFL here (they tried and failed with CalgaryNext).

Baseball and soccer/football have very different weather requirements as well. Can easily play soccer or football in rain or snow and some cold (-5-10'C is probably the coldest for soccer) as long as the fans are covered and there's some wind mitigation

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by MegaErtz

There aren't enough CFL fans in Calgary to justify the tremendous cost of building an indoor stadium, which is why we're stuck with McMahon, which needs a good knocking down in my opinion. The climate means that it just wouldn't be feasible to have an outdoor stadium, just like Las Vegas wouldn't be able to have an MLS team outdoors due to extreme heat.

Calgary's population is about twice as big as it was back when I first started going to Stamps games, and it isn't anywhere near big enough to have an MLS team. You'd need someone like Stan Kroenke to bring a team here, and we're already lucky enough to have our Stan Kroenke in Margaret Southern, who has been footing the bill for Cavalry FC for years. Without her, there's simply no way Calgary could support the kind of wage bill they're paying now.

I think MLS is a non-starter, but I disagree with the bold. Two reasons:

1) I believe that there is a strong undercurrent of interest in the CFL, but sitting outside, on metal benches sucks, and is a non-starter for most people over 50

2) Buying season tickets for football is super easy because there are only 10 games.

I would buy seasons instantly, if I didn't have to deal with the weather and uncomfortable benches. And pretty much everyone I have discussed this with agrees with me. I believe thousands of people would pony up for seats to support the CFL, if there was a decent option for doing so.

[Enoch Root]

And I don't think that necessarily means a dome either. An open stadium, with well covered seating that can be kept at least reasonably warm and dry is all that is required.

And probably preferable, because open stadiums are way better than domes.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

And I don't think that necessarily means a dome either. An open stadium, with well covered seating that can be kept at least reasonably warm and dry is all that is required.

And probably preferable, because open stadiums are way better than domes.

Do you mean something like this?

Originally Posted by CroFlames

This stadium was build for 155 million euros in 2011 in Italy.

Could we not demolish McMahon and build a new facility that doesn't suck?

Spoiler!

[hixxes]

Am I looking at that rendering correctly that Father David Bauer and Norma Bush arenas are gone?

[timun]

Originally Posted by Joborule

Is CFL a good base to judge if MLS could do well in Calgary? Vancouver doesn't give a #### about the CFL at all, nor does Toronto. But their MLS teams seem to have pretty good support in relation. I think that you also have the factor in league prestige in those cities. They are selective in what they want to spend their money on since there's lots of entertainment options. So they wouldn't want to spend money on a lower tier league like the CFL since they're more interested in the NFL which is somewhat physically accessible. But MLS is the highest tier for soccer on the continent, so they are willing to spend for that. So is Calgary similar? Would the general population interest in soccer high enough that perhaps MLS could work?

Just based off of this article on 2019 numbers. Some spots in high pop. cities don't have the greatest numbers. Granted there's a lot more competing interests. Calgary wouldn't haven't that issue as MLS would immediately be the 2nd biggest league in prestige in the city.

There's no question that CFL in Toronto and Vancouver is hurting (especially the Argonauts), and your reasoning is the CFL is "lower tier" and thus doesn't appeal to residents of those cities for "prestige" reasons, yet the MLS attendance is still pretty light. Toronto draws about 25,000 per game, but Vancouver Whitecaps games at BC Place are just about the same mausoleum-like experience as Lions games: 19,514 vs. 17,803.

Whether deliberate or not I think you've conveniently ignored the elephant in the room that, frankly, makes your line of reasoning contradictory and specious to me: Montreal Impact. They draw a paltry 16,151 people per game. Granted the Alouettes aren't a hell of a lot better (17,574) but if MLS draws flies in the second-biggest and arguably most cosmopolitan city in the country... why would it be any better in Calgary? Especially in light of the fact the Stampeders draw better than any of the Canadian MLS teams already, and in fact would be in the top four in attendance in the MLS overall.

As such I don't think CFL attendance is indicative of the market for MLS. MLS needs to stand on its own, and to do so they'd need a venue that works for soccer. The prudent thing to do in planning a McMahon replacement/reno is to take soccer into account, but I wouldn't necessarily count on an MLS team making the whole thing financially viable. Either way a roof is out of the question: there's absolutely no way to make that work money-wise.

[morgin]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I think MLS is a non-starter, but I disagree with the bold. Two reasons:

1) I believe that there is a strong undercurrent of interest in the CFL, but sitting outside, on metal benches sucks, and is a non-starter for most people over 50

2) Buying season tickets for football is super easy because there are only 10 games.

I would buy seasons instantly, if I didn't have to deal with the weather and uncomfortable benches. And pretty much everyone I have discussed this with agrees with me. I believe thousands of people would pony up for seats to support the CFL, if there was a decent option for doing so.

For the record, while I won’t suggest McMahon doesn’t have some bench seating, it’s been significantly reduced over the last 5-10 years. There are only a few remaining pure bench sections. Majority is seats and then benches with backless seats. It’s not modern by any stretch, but it’s not metal benches for the most part anymore.