Do you support leaving the CPP and creating a new Alberta Pension Plan?

[Jacks]

I think this is important enough to have it's own thread since most people avoid the Alberta Politics thread. Please try to keep things civil here and not chase people away. If you can't resist the urge to be a jerk go back to the Alberta Politics thread.

First off the Alberta government hired a consultant who came to the conclusion that Alberta would be entitled to over half of the assets of CPP ($334 billion) if they decide to exit the plan. This is complete bullcrap, there is no way that is going to happen. Experts have estimated that 20-25% of the assets would be a more likely scenario.

In either case an argument can be made that Alberta would be better off, at least in the short term, and be able to offer the same or better benefits potentially at a lower contribution rate due to our higher average earnings and younger demographics.

Others rightfully mention that the CPP isn't based on provinces, it's based on people. If someone works for 30 years in Alberta and then retires in PEI an Alberta plan would still need to pay them a pension. Also in the long run we don't know if we'd be better off. Eventually our economy is likely to see reduced revenue from energy royalties and at that point we may no longer be in the better position that we are today.

Another point is that the CPP is extremely well run and has a excellent track record of growing the fund through smart investment decisions. We don't know who would administer an APP, while not impossible it's unlikely that it would be as well run. It must be said that the UCP government refuses to commit that the program would be at arms length from the government and therefore free from political meddling, Smith has said that they won't promise this even before a referendum. Also, the government has floated the idea of using the fund to invest in Alberta businesses, the idea of politicians using your pension to spread money to unnamed companies should give everybody cause for concern.

Lastly, do you trust the UCP to handle any of this?
Would you really trust any political party to do this?

We might not be better off at all if politicians do what they do best and screw it up.

Provinces are free to leave the CPP but there is no mechanism to rejoin it later, this is a permanent decision.


Mods: Can you please create a poll for this thread, anonymous would be best I think. It can be a simple yes/no/unsure but it might be interesting to see the breakdown for Conservative voters.

1) I consider myself a Conservative and support an APP
2) I consider myself a Conservative and do not support an APP
3) I do not consider myself a Conservative and support an APP
4) I do not consider myself a Conservative and do not support an APP
5) I don't know

[TorqueDog]

No.

I do not support the APP. I would not support if it was by the NDP. I would not support it rain or shine. I would not support it drunk off wine. I do not like the UCP. Their ideas are bad for you and me. I do not like them, Sam I Am. All these idiots need to get canned.

[lazypucker]

I am geniunely curious on how the CPP works.

Are there any fund managers investing and growing the money in the plan? Or is it just using young taxpayers' money to pay the old retirees?

[White Out 403]

No I'm Canadian before anything else. All this divisive horse#### is really ugly

[photon]

Poll added.

[wpgflamesfan]

Originally Posted by lazypucker

I am geniunely curious on how the CPP works.

Are there any fund managers investing and growing the money in the plan? Or is it just using young taxpayers' money to pay the old retirees?

...and this folks is why we're hooped.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by lazypucker

I am geniunely curious on how the CPP works.

Are there any fund managers investing and growing the money in the plan? Or is it just using young taxpayers' money to pay the old retirees?

The CPP is run like an investment fund and has seen safe, stable and quite good returns. It is very well run.

[nik-]

I wish we didn't have to tie political leanings to that because I'm not sure I can even answer that question anymore lol.

I don't support APP, especially not run by people appointed by these idiots.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by wpgflamesfan

...and this folks is why we're hooped.

At least they are asking the question . How else will they learn ?

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Jacks

The CPP is run like an investment fund and has seen safe, stable and quite good returns. It is very well run.

Approx 10% annually

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Approx 10% annually

With returns like that, it's too bad there isn't a "manged by CPP" ETF Canadians could invest in. Far better for most than gambling in the stock market, or using some schisty "broker" who does what their name says for you.

[greyshep]

You need another poll option.

I consider myself a political party orphan and do not support an APP

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by greyshep

You need another poll option.

I consider myself a political party orphan and do not support an APP

I hear you but didn't want too many poll options. Personally I'm a Conservative but don't support the UCP under Smith. I chose the second option.

[Sliver]

Yeah, adding the political affiliation thing is weird af. I've at times voted for comservatives, liberals and ndp. It's insane to me somebody would tie themselves to a party. Vote for whoever has the best ideas for the times in any given election. To define yourself in terms of a political party is mind boggling.

[Johnny Makarov]

booo they made it a private poll now but not before Yoyo was outed as the only person who voted yes... lol

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Yeah, adding the political affiliation thing is weird af. I've at times voted for comservatives, liberals and ndp. It's insane to me somebody would tie themselves to a party. Vote for whoever has the best ideas for the times in any given election. To define yourself in terms of a political party is mind boggling.

Well in that case you wouldn't consider yourself a Conservative right?
Pretty easy then to pick one of the 3rd or 4th options.

The idea was to get a sample of people who were more likely to support the UCP.

[Locke]

I dont know. I largely consider myself a Fiscal Conservative, but my views and beliefs really do not align at all with this particular Conservative Government.

Furthermore I think an APP is just a bad, bad idea...overall and for a veritable cornucopia of reasons.

And finally, I dont think this current crop of clowns is qualified to run a lemonade stand much less a Provincial Pension Program.

So...No, No and No from me.

I cant really answer the Poll because while I lean Conservative, not these Conservatives.

Just...to put it mildly, the concept of an APP is HEAVILY flawed. These ####heads want something and they want us to pay the price for it.

Do. Not. Trust.

[T-Dog]

It’s actually mind boggling to me that there could be a $150B+ discrepancy between what people think Alberta’s entitlement to CPP assets would be. It doesn’t really give me a lot of confidence that these folks are good with numbers.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

With returns like that, it's too bad there isn't a "manged by CPP" ETF Canadians could invest in. Far better for most than gambling in the stock market, or using some schisty "broker" who does what their name says for you.

Well there are guys you can use who would do this for you, plain and simple. And yeah, CPPIB does well, but it’s a lot of private equity and pieces like that which aren’t available to everyone (and in many cases might not be appropriate).

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Slava

Well there are guys you can use who would do this for you, plain and simple. And yeah, CPPIB does well, but it’s a lot of private equity and pieces like that which aren’t available to everyone (and in many cases might not be appropriate).

Been there, lost that. Not something I'd recommend to anyone. Particularly knowing what I know now about them. Did you miss my "broker" quip?